Authoritarian Right Wingers Want Government to Impose "Moral Values" on Us -- And Call It "Freedom"

Gee, onefan51! I was following you until your last sentence. Where did this authoritative blast on your part come from?

The Kingdom of God is not a Jeffersonian Democracy.

CAF

was following you until your last sentence. Where did this authoritative blast on your part come from?

Not meant to personally offend anyone. Just a strong opinion. I should have qualified the last sentence with "A limited number of ... "

"The Kingdom of God is not a Jeffersonian Democracy."

The Kingdom of god is a myth.

Onefan51, Ok, I'm good just struck by the forcefulness of opinion which seemed inconsistent with the reasonable thought exhibited prior.

While I find the BuzzFlash article to be more opinion than fact, I would point out (in support of BuzzFlash) that Pew Foundation poll of scientists revealed that 55 % were Democrat, but only 6% were Republican !!

"The Kingdom of God is not a Jeffersonian Democracy."

The Kingdom of god is a myth.

Maybe. But according to Christ, it is closed to wealthy people. Which makes it good enough for me. Just my own opinion, but I totally love that commie socialist bastard.

Your last sentence was spot on to me. And don't forget people, the right wing speaks in opposites; so if they say moral, they mean immoral. If they say convictions, they mean well oiled weather vane. If they say freedom, I'm sure you get the drift...

Right Wingers Want Government to Impose "Moral Values" on Us

And the right have the majestic hypocrisy of accusing Barack Obama of being a dictator and despot?!? They are becoming a dangerous joke.

since the left does it....why not the right?? it only makes sense.

that is why both sides need to be rejected.

Maybe. But according to Christ, it is closed to wealthy people

well actually that's not quite correct... it's closed to people who have put the love of wealth & money above God...

I'm 100% conservative to the core and I want to see every government welfare check cut off immediately.

you seem to have left off all the welfare to the wealthy.. you know farm subsidies, subsidies to big oil & pharma, all the tax loopholes for the wealthy.. welfare to other nations ...

you seem to have left off all the welfare to the wealthy.. you know farm subsidies, subsidies to big oil & pharma, all the tax loopholes for the wealthy.. welfare to other nations ...

I didn't leave off anything. I want the government to hurt everybody and help no one. Government is evil and should act the part.

meangene

our two party system is all about helping your friends and hurting your enemies....that is all it is...it is corrupt to the bone and stupid pieces like this article prove it.

as anyone claiming the right is forcing morality upon the masses but refuses to see that the left does also....well is just not being honest.

I didn't leave off anything. I want the government to hurt everybody and help no one. Government is evil and should act the part.

but you didn't mention them. to me if you want corporate welfare gone you should mention it.. all you did was denigrate the poor... as well based on your comment maybe North Korea would be your best bet,, the government you seek is already in place...

The right routinely makes statements that are not intended to be factual

They spout and leave to listeners to sort it out; some people don't like thinking for themselves, so they go along even when it's not in their best interests.

Whatever moral values that are imposed upon us by the right won't be followed by the right. They reserve liberties for themselves that will not be extended to the rest of us.

What constitutes moral values ?

Some religions allow contraception...including Islam.

The GOP insistence that ALL Americans conform to a Catholic edict on access to birth control that

DOES NOT EXIST IN THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
is troubling,

and wrong.

MeanGene is heart broken that we are not a 3rd world nation full of cockfights and Tijuana donkey shows.

He is a genuine bonafide Mammonist.

He is a high level technocrat who has no clue what Fascist or jihadist mean, only that they are cool names to insult Occupy protestors with and he believes every citizen has the same rights and abilities as police officers.

MeanGene is a GENIUS.

Don't even get MG started on the MJ... he loves the stuff. I heard he even smokes it before he goes to work in his private bunker in Oklahoma.

As a younger female, I have to say that watching the news these past few weeks has become downright scary. Since when is it okay to use my body as a political/religious wedge issue?

And now we have this crazy, invasive law passed in Virginia that forces women to have unnecessary vaginal ultrasounds. Where the hell is NOW and the ACLU. They better be all over that like white on rice.

I mean, conservatives claim to be about less government, but it's okay to allow the government to force something up my body against my will???

I mean, conservatives claim to be about less government

most conservatives I've seen are about control... period.. especially those in government...

Still having difficulty digesting that whole concept of "you have the freedom to believe in what we dictate you believe". Not even God wants us force-fed Christianity.

Sarah--VOTE! Take a couple of friends with you. Inform.

Oh trust me, I'm going too! :) I have in every election since I turned 18, there's no way I'm missing this one.

Unfortunately, because of voter apathy in 2010, it's going to take a bigger effort on all our parts to return this nation to rationality. The irrational radical right wing has dug in,aided by Koch money,ALEC's war room and Faux News propaganda!

We must now multiply our individual votes by 5, to make up for the lackeys, that still don't recognize the urgency of putting the ghouls back in the crypt. There is no way the majority of the American people are as mean spirited, and evil, as the GOP's base. Our job is to insure they vote...the rallying cry should be ( 2010- won't happen again)...

This article could just as easily be: Authoritarian Left Wingers Want Government to impose "Liberal Values" on us.

I don't want the government in my bedroom (regardless of whether it's on the left or right side of the bed), period !!

Democrats are trying to pick fights by taking the most extreme sides of social issues and trying to equate any back lash from Republicans or others as supporting the extreme opposite side of them. I don't wish for either party to impose their values on me, and many of the fights the Democrats are picking amount to attempts to impose liberal values on others, which is just as wrong as "social conservatives" attempting to legislate (their) morality !!

What liberal values and morals are you referring to?

Xray,

Nothing doesn't equal something. Conservatives seem to believe that NOT being allowed to dictate citizen's private choices, that somehow infringes on their own private choices. If they can't dictate who can marry who, does that mean they're forced to marry someone? If they can't dictate who can do what with their bodies, does that mean they're forced to have an abortion?

No. If you're pushing against a wall and you stop, does that mean the wall is now pushing you???

You need to apply the "but for" test. But for the rights attempts to maintain the ban on gay marriage, would liberals be telling you who to marry? But for the attacks on women's bodies, would liberals be telling you what to do with yours?

No. There is no "but for" with conservatives. But for their morals??? Well their morals, all of our morals are PERSONAL and aren't to be used to legislate.

SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST, STUPID COMPUTER.

Xray,

Nothing doesn't equal something. Conservatives seem to believe that NOT being allowed to dictate citizen's private choices, somehow infringes on their own private choices. If they can't dictate who can marry who, does that mean they're forced to marry someone? If they can't dictate who can do what with their bodies, does that mean they're forced to have an abortion?

No. If you're pushing against a wall and you stop, does that mean the wall is now pushing you???

You need to apply the "but for" test. But for the right's attempts to maintain the ban on gay marriage, would liberals be telling you who to marry? But for the attacks on women's bodies, would liberals be telling you what to do with yours?

No. There is no "but for" with conservatives. But for their morals??? Well their morals, all of our morals are PERSONAL and aren't to be used to legislate.

As a younger female, I have to say that watching the news these past few weeks has become downright scary. Since when is it okay to use my body as a political/religious wedge issue?

It's not your body. If you can't sell it, then it's not yours. You have no certificate of title. You cannot sell yourself for prostitution, and you cannot sell yourself or buy another person as a slave because bodies are not chattel properties.

Okay, I'll bite, because I really can't wait to hear this one...

Who does my body belong to????

I'm assuming you're going to say God, but you couldn't possibly be silly enough to answer that way, knowing that our laws protect me from your God.

Let me clear something up for you, prostitution is illegal, not because the prostitutes don't have the right to their body, but because it's widely believed that the government has a compelling reason to curtail it. That it leads to drugs, violence, yada, yada, yada... Personally, I think they have it backwards, but whatever.

And, you're all screwed up on slavery, we can't own other people, because they already own themselves. Your argument is somehow saying, we can't own other people because they can't own themselves. What????

Why it is govt property of course.

And to drive home the point women in Virginia have to be clinically raped by govt sanction with a sonogram probe before getting an abortion.

That is, specifically, getting a transvaginal sonogram to serve a political purpose - not a medical one - and the the wishes of her and her physcian.

And that GENE is what FASCISM looks like. A very short step from that to the burka and cliteroectomies.

Thank you for playing.

women in Virginia have to be clinically raped by govt sanction with a sonogram probe before getting an abortion.

Not quite true ... The proposed law has only passed the Virginia House it now must go to the Senate and be signed by the Governor...

VA House Passes Transvaginal Ultrasound Bill

The bill will now go to the state Senate. Republican Governor Bob McDonnell indicated that he will sign the bill.

http://feminist.org/news/newsbyte/uswirestory.asp?id=13470

But it was so much more dramatic the way you put it .... not true but it catches the eye and starts rumors .....

Not quite true ... The proposed law has only passed the Virginia House

Republican Governor Bob McDonnell indicated that he will sign the bill.

the fact the bill was even presented should be a huge issue... and it passed the VA House.. and the gov has already said he would sign it... is deplorable... so maybe VA should stand for Vagina Attendant...

Jim44, are you for or against the Virginia bill?

Jim44, are you for or against the Virginia bill?

I am not a Virginia resident so I have no say...But were I ....

AGAINST .... I believe that the invasion into a woman's body oversteps the authority of the government... An invasion into her person that should not be allowed!

Do I think woman should be required to better understand what they are about to do... Sure! In private sector abortion clinics... But the government has no right or obligation to inject itself into their BUSINESS" ...

But I also don't believe the government should be in the abortion business for any reason other than to provide any medical assistance a woman might request due to Rape, Incest or the life of the woman...

And in all those cases ...I believe the woman's decision is the only thing that matters... My personal feeling about abortion...Have no place in that woman's decision!

Well Daw I don't think I can be more clear !

Okay, I'll bite, because I really can't wait to hear this one...

Who does my body belong to????

I'm assuming you're going to say God, but you couldn't possibly be silly enough to answer that way, knowing that our laws protect me from your God.

Sarah, you're probably not as aware as a male who it is that owns your body because you, being a female, have never had to register with the Selective Service and your body is not subject to the Draft should the USA need bodies for cannon fodder.

Males know it. If you turn 18 years old and you don't register your body with the US Selective Service then your body winds up going to prison.

God ain't the one who assigns you a Draft Number.

Let me clear something up for you, prostitution is illegal, not because the prostitutes don't have the right to their body, but because it's widely believed that the government has a compelling reason to curtail it. That it leads to drugs, violence, yada, yada, yada... Personally, I think they have it backwards, but whatever.

The government does have a compelling reason to curtail it. Prostitutes endanger other women and create an environment uncomfortable to other women. For example, the street in Phoenix, AZ most known for prostitution is Van Buren in South Phoenix. Women (nice ones) can't hardly walk down that street without getting lewd and crude propositions, and I think that's wrong. I think sexual harassment is wrong. You might be okay with sexual harassment in public venues, but I myself am not.

And, you're all screwed up on slavery, we can't own other people, because they already own themselves. Your argument is somehow saying, we can't own other people because they can't own themselves. What????

You're confusing yourself on purpose, I think. Either that, or you don't understand the concept of citizenship at all.

I served in the United States Navy, and for 8 years I was ordered where to go, where to live, what to wear, what to eat, and any freedoms I got were subject to change at a moment's notice. During my enlistment, I was property of the United States Government. Same as all citizens are.

Don't believe me? Try not paying your taxes and see what they do with your body. Hope you like bars.

You do not own your body. You can't sell it. The government says you can't. Which should tell you all you need to know about who really owns you.

Let me write that down. Van Buren street. Thanks MeanGene-3334839.

Yellow Dog,

Let me give you some tips if you're going to do something immoral and illegal like shop for prostitutes.

• If you see a prostitute who doesn't look like a dope addict, then she's probably a cop.
• If you see a prostitute who looks anywhere close to underage, then she's probably underage and you could go down for child molest.
• If the prostitute has a place ready for the tryst, then you're either about to be mugged or arrested. Either way, you're screwed and not the way you were hoping for.
• If the prostitute offers to do the work without a condom, then you'd better have some damned good health insurance to take care of a nasty infection.
• If the hotel/motel doesn't ask questions, said hotel/motel also doesn't change sheets.
• If the prostitute asks if you'd like to buy her drugs, then she's about to take you to meet her pimp and you will get rolled.
• If the prostitute only offers sex acts which don't involve a vagina, then it's because she's a he and doesn't have a vagina.
• If the prostitute says she doesn't know where you put your wallet, then you'll never see that wallet again.

Practically all laws which seem on their surface to be based on "morality" have roots in common sense.

Prostitution is one such law. Prostitution spreads disease, debases women who tend to have angry male relatives who will kick your ass, adds to blight and destroys the family structure which is the foundation of all successful societies.

Murder is another such law. Sure, the Bible says "thou shalt not kill" but is that based on morality or common sense? Osama Bin Laden lived in Afghanistan where the Taliban believe murder is totally legal and their "God" supports murder 100%. Murder is their moral code, but did it pass the common sense test? Not really, because murder, as usual, gets people very pissed off and if it's legal then they'll come murder you back, and everyone around you to boot. Blood feuds are still common today.

Abortion is rooted in common sense and not morality as well. Sure, it's murder in the first degree with malice and aforethought against a baby who did nothing wrong, but that's not the only reason there is to be against legalized abortion.

What have been the results of abortion? Disaster! Before abortion was 'legalized' by an activist Supreme Court legislating from the Bench in 1973, the out of wedlock birth rate was under 10% in 1970. Today the number of out of wedlock birthrate is about 40% and still climbing.

LEGAL ABORTION CAUSED THE OUT OF WEDLOCK BIRTHRATE TO QUADRUPLE. It's counterintuitive for killing babies in the womb to increase the birthrate at all, much less quadruple it but such is the Law Of Unintended Consequences (LOUC).

The way the LOUC plays into this is because women, assured that they've got a "way out" of childbearing through abortion will engage in the behavior known to cause childbearing without benefit of marriage or commitment or perhaps not even knowing the guy, the so-called "one-night stand" and then unwanted pregnancy happens.

The unplanned pregnancy happens because of the Abortion Safety Net, so why don't all unplanned pregnancies end up in the abortionists biohazard bucket in the corner?

Simple: most people (men and women alike) who think they're capable of killing another human being are not actually capable of doing it. If they were to put a gun to another person's head, their hands will shake, they can't bring themselves to pull the trigger, and they'll drop the gun. This is no different for women seeking abortion. They think that they can be so cruel, but when crunch time comes for them to prove just how murderous they are, they come up lacking the will to commit the foul deed in the end.

Legal Abortion causes more unwanted births than it prevents. Ending it will reduce unwanted births to pre-1970 levels, cutting them by 75%. It has nothing to do with morality or the imposition of morals, and everything to do with common sense.

MG

quite well articulate on the Abortion issue ... And I am sure helpful for Dawg on the Hooker Front!

Let me give you some tips if you're going to do something immoral and illegal like shop for prostitutes.

Learned all these tips the hard way did we?

Murder is another such law. Sure, the Bible says "thou shalt not kill" but is that based on morality or common sense? Osama Bin Laden lived in Afghanistan where the Taliban believe murder is totally legal and their "God" supports murder 100%. Murder is their moral code, but did it pass the common sense test? Not really, because murder, as usual, gets people very pissed off and if it's legal then they'll come murder you back, and everyone around you to boot. Blood feuds are still common today.

Unless of course you want to kill the president or other elected officials in which case it is covered under the 2nd amendment, which is actually just a hard-core expression of the 1st amendment freedom of speech.

But since every citizen lawfully walking around with a gun has the same rights and protections as every cop, who's counting? Say, Gene...have you tested out that theory and shot someone for resisting citizen's arrest yet? What's wrong? Are you chicken? Or just terminally full of crap?

LEGAL ABORTION CAUSED THE OUT OF WEDLOCK BIRTHRATE TO QUADRUPLE. It's counterintuitive for killing babies in the womb to increase the birthrate at all, much less quadruple it but such is the Law Of Unintended Consequences (LOUC).

Well that's funny and curious. Oklahoma and Mississippi are both staunchly conservative pro-life states. But we also fund our public education per student spending in the the toilet, have massive rates of teen and unwed pregnancies as well as high school drop outs, uninsured children and adults and a terrible record of Oklahoma of parents and caretakers killing their own children. And lead the nation in all the above with such national luminaries as Texas and Louisiana.

Gosh Gene. What's the disconnect?

And as any genius like yourself should know, the prison industrial complex is just institutional welfare since the stae and the public dime all pay for housing meals and health care.

Just how can states who have it right look so much like third world cess-pools? And clearly, they are the model you believe the rest of the nation should follow.

As for abortion causing the birthrate to quadruple. That must be like Bush's doctrine of raising revenue by cutting taxes. Destroying the village to save it. Bleeding a patient to promote new blood cell production - worked great for George Washington that did.

It was so much better when abortion was illegal. The procedure was done in back alleys and just as likely to kill or sterilize the the mother as achieve the desired result...which is one way to keep unintended births down, yeah?

Good times.

Besides, of course the state can dictate what women can and can't do with their own bodies. Its not like they are actually people or anything!

MG,

As far as I know, NO ONE, male or female, has to register for the draft, seeing as we don't have it. But furthermore, I think it's bunk that women wouldn't have to. I advocate for a single set of physical standards for the military, with ALL positions open to ANYONE who can pass them.

Can you cite some sort of sociological study to back up your stance on prostitution. Personally, I've never felt remotely uncomfortable around it or about it. I think it's tragic, but it's tragic not because of it's sexuality, but because of it's humanity. Plus, it's been around as long as time itself. We can either legalize it, and at least regulate it, or we can continue to watch lives waste away.

And to compare it to sexual harrassment??? What? Sexual harrassment is a mostly labor/employment issue. For sexual harassment to exist at all you have to show how it effected you in a work enviroment.

And, in terms of American law, which covers American citizenship, our humanity endows us with rights. As long is someone is human, they have certain rights and protections, ergo no slavery.

Wow.

As far as I know, NO ONE, male or female, has to register for the draft, seeing as we don't have it.

Sorry, but Wrong all males living within the US must register.... but correct we don't currently have a draft...

If you are a man ages 18 through 25 and living in the U.S., then you must register with Selective Service. It’s the law. According to law, a man must register with Selective Service within 30 days of his 18th birthday.

http://www.sss.gov/default.htm

Best 18th birthday party ever... ahhh the memories of waiting in line at the courthouse to potentially sign my life away.

Ah, thank you Jim. So, MG, I would have no problem registering. In fact, it seems terribly wrong that I don't have to.

By the way... i never thought i would say this but... cough MG might have made a good point cough. One of the major issues with equality is you can't have equal rights without equal responsibility.

Careful C. C.

You could lose your card for doing that ! And then you could never be referred to again as a ..

card carrying Liberal ... (smiles...its a joke)

What if the only folks who are running are all handled by the same entity?

What then?

VOTE VOTE VOTE And we can stop this.

No, you can't. Most laws are done deals and can't be stopped, a fact which liberal darling 'morality' depends upon for vile things like the Social Security program passed in 1935.

The despicable Social Security program, enacted 77 years ago, was NEVER VOTED ON by anyone who are victims of the "Social Promise" today. I never made that promise, I never got to vote on that promise but I will do everything I can to break that promise and bring an end to Social Security and all that it stands for. It's ridiculous that people win a freaking lottery just for having a birthday. If the elderly are stupid enough to live for decades and save nothing for an old age they could see coming from 40 years away then they deserve the fate of social Darwinism. They totally deserve to go starving in the streets and my moral position would be to point and laugh at the idiots.

Most laws are too old to have actually been voted on which is why most laws need to have sunset clauses every four years so that people can vote on them again. Such a vote would be the end of Social Security for sure and also the end of most welfare programs to boot.

Mean Gene demands his right to eat babies if he can afford to buy them.

Steaks taste better seasoned with the tears of hungry children and anguished parents.

Mean...feel free to return your Social Security checks.

Better yet, mail 'em to me.

Don,

Does McCormicks make that seasoning???

Anyway MG, that's okay, being a liberal myself I enjoy lightly fried fetuses dipped in ranch dressing. Of course lightly fried anything dipped in ranch dressing is fantastic.

There's also cajun fetuses, jerk fetuses, fetuses ala king, kung pao fetuses, fetuses alfredo, and fetuses con queso. Of course, eating fetuses con queso might lead to your immediate deportation due to suspicon of being here illegally, but they're so delicious I just have to risk it.

Oh Sarah. That is just wrong. I like you!

fetuses dipped in ranch dressing. Of course lightly fried anything dipped in ranch dressing is fantastic.

That doesn't sound very healthy. Make sure you eat some vegetables too.

Trm,

Of course I do. I eat my veggies lightly fried and dipped in ranch dressing. Yum!

Mean...feel free to return your Social Security checks.

Better yet, mail 'em to me.

I shall never get Social Security checks. It's not possible for me to ever collect a Social Security check because of the longevity (lack thereof) in my family. It's genetically impossible that I will live to reach the age of 68 to collect even one Social Security payment.

No one in my immediate family, none of my relatives, not even one, has lived to be 60 years old. My life expectancy is death in my early 50's, when the government will simply dance on my grave and pocket every Social Security dime they've stolen from me and my family for their own vile purposes.

Two out of three of my brothers are already dead, died before they turned 45 years old and do you know what happened to the money they put into Social Security? Stolen. Kept by the government program which profits upon the deaths of American citizens. Social Security is evil and ghoulish, a parasitic program which preys upon those unfortunate enough to have lost at the genetic lottery of life.

a short lifespan isn't the only thing you lost in the genetic lottery...

Objection: Code of Honor Violation

Statement withdrawn

Thank God for small favors.

Yes, we know. It's a myth...a fantasy...make believe! We get it!

I hate Kings and Kingdoms and royalty. I'm an American and I find anyone who calls himself a King to be disgusting. I'll go to Hell before I subject myself to the authority of a despicable King of this world or any other world. The whole concept of having Kings and royalty is vile and anti-American. I'm an American first and foremost. Any God calling himself a King needs to read the Declaration of Independence.

MeanGene thinks he IS God. He and Charley Sheen have the same dealer.

Any God calling himself a King needs to read the Declaration of Independence.

Likewise he is perfectly comfortable with a piece of paper that says that all "All Men Are Created Equal" in a society where slavery was accepted and genocide was cool.

MeanGene thinks he IS God. He and Charley Sheen have the same dealer.

I wouldn't be God. I couldn't live on the pay cut.

Likewise he is perfectly comfortable with a piece of paper that says that all "All Men Are Created Equal" in a society where slavery was accepted and genocide was cool.

Interesting that you would post such a comment in a "moral values" topic.

Why is slavery wrong? It's obviously not immoral. Most religions (Christianity included) support slavery and even mention the practice. So, why is slavery wrong if not immorality?

If you've ever seen a historical plantation (I'd suggest the Laura Plantation in Louisiana) then you'd be aware of the recursive nature of slavery. Basically, you need slaves to care for other slaves, feeding them, housing them, etc. which makes slavery extremely inefficient in practice. Entire crops were grown by slaves for the sole purpose of feeding slaves. That's wasted land and wasted resources. The cows were milked by slaves to be served to slaves. It's psychotically stupid and inefficient to keep slaves when their room and board is worth far more than their labor. That's why most people didn't engage in slavery, even when it was legal.

It's like why most people don't own horses. If my F-150 were a horse, it would be dead. I feed it (gas it up) every other week, I leave it out in the sun all day, I let it go 5,000 miles between checkups and maintenance and I don't spend any time training it. If I did that to a horse, then I'd be in jail for animal cruelty.

Genocide is still happening in America. The President of the USA is called "the First Black President" but he's the result of Black Men preferring White Women for mates. It's rare to find anyone who isn't, for lack of a better term, a "mutt". Indian reservations have reduced tribal membership to the point of 1/16th Indian blood because it's so rare to find a full-blooded Native American anymore. Mexicans are basically half-European (Spain is in Europe, I've got a map to prove it) speaking Spanish, and Germans have had their asses kicked so many times throughout history that not even Hitler was a full-blooded German.

You call genocide 'cool' and common sense says it's not even possible. Good luck finding a "Master Race" when the number of purebreds are just about zero.

Oh I think you have just made a whole bunch of friends with that load of tripe Gene.

Why is slavery wrong? It's obviously not immoral. Most religions (Christianity included) support slavery and even mention the practice. So, why is slavery wrong if not immorality?

The process of getting slaves from Africa killed nine in every ten. The biggest killer on the Middle Passage was dehydration. People who had high blood pressure survived the trip better and left the medical condition on to their descendents as a legacy. That's not immoral?

Buying and selling humans isn't immoral?

The institution of slavery deprives humans of their feedom, self-determination, institutionalizes rape. Slave owning Founding Fathers were great humaitarians. They sold blood. Their own flesh and blood. At the slave market. A slave was the child of a black woman. Black children born by white women were called "free issue." Again, its not like women are people. Neither, evidently were slaves. Of course, what happens to slaves when they have outlived their usefulness? Why they get retired to Big Rock Candy Mountain of course! Killed when they became inconvenient. Live stock don't get funerals and neither did slaves.

If you've ever seen a historical plantation (I'd suggest the Laura Plantation in Louisiana) then you'd be aware of the recursive nature of slavery. Basically, you need slaves to care for other slaves, feeding them, housing them, etc. which makes slavery extremely inefficient in practice. Entire crops were grown by slaves for the sole purpose of feeding slaves. That's wasted land and wasted resources. The cows were milked by slaves to be served to slaves. It's psychotically stupid and inefficient to keep slaves when their room and board is worth far more than their labor. That's why most people didn't engage in slavery, even when it was legal.

You are a dumbass and a liar.

The reason that about 80% of farmer in the South didn't have slaves was because they were dirt poor. Secondly, trust you to equate the economic rather than human cost od slavery in judging its morality.

Slaves were given one day a week to support themselves on. Sunday. The other six were devoted to laboring for their owners. On pain of lashing. The family was destroyed as an institution under slavery. Chattel, owned things, don't have families.

Slavery was a big enough deal that the one war that killed the most Americans in history was fought over it.

Another thing. Bercause of the institution of slavery, the blood of the Founding Fathers runs thicker in the veins of American blacks than in the whites. Not that they are particularly esteemed for that reason. They never counted and still don't.

Genocide is still happening in America. The President of the USA is called "the First Black President" but he's the result of Black Men preferring White Women for mates. It's rare to find anyone who isn't, for lack of a better term, a "mutt". Indian reservations have reduced tribal membership to the point of 1/16th Indian blood because it's so rare to find a full-blooded Native American anymore. Mexicans are basically half-European (Spain is in Europe, I've got a map to prove it) speaking Spanish, and Germans have had their asses kicked so many times throughout history that not even Hitler was a full-blooded German.

If everyone is Heinz 57, then how can there still be genocide going on?

Genocide is still happening in America. The President of the USA is called "the First Black President" but he's the result of Black Men preferring White Women for mates.

And that's genocide? Really? Obviously, like fascism and jihadist, gocide is a word that you are really unclear on.

The theft by duplicity and murder of land from Native Americans was genocide. The death march of all tribes east of the Mississippi to Oklahoma was genocide. The racial terrorism engaged in by the KKK and White Citizens Councils were genocidal in nature. The Greenwood Race Riots of Tulsa Ok in 1921, which were successfully covered up until I was in high school was a bonafide multi-count crime against humanity. what would it look like if the genocide in Bosnia had been successfully covered up? Tulsa Oklahoma.

Interracial sex and marriage is genocide only in the bigotted deranged White Supracist mind of cretins who should have long since gone the way of the dinosaur. Hitler would have made that argument.

It's rare to find anyone who isn't, for lack of a better term, a "mutt". Indian reservations have reduced tribal membership to the point of 1/16th Indian blood because it's so rare to find a full-blooded Native American anymore. Mexicans are basically half-European (Spain is in Europe, I've got a map to prove it) speaking Spanish, and Germans have had their asses kicked so many times throughout history that not even Hitler was a full-blooded German.

You call genocide 'cool' and common sense says it's not even possible. Good luck finding a "Master Race" when the number of purebreds are just about zero.

My ex-wife and my present wife were/are both black. My great grandfather was Mexican. Being from Oklahoma, my ancestors come from all over the place. I've got some Native American, enough that my grandfather could have had us on the Indian Rolls if he hadn't been such a bigot. I've got the blood of conquerors and vanquished in my veins.

But don't you dare tell me that this is a homogenized color-blind society. There was enough distinction between the races that Jim Crow was rolled back only after the price had been paid for in lives and blood. But of course since you hate any form of protest, you'd have been pro-Jim Crow which would have made you a pro-segregationist dinosaur who would have defended a states right to allow its citizens to lynch and terrorize their black neighbors.

And don't tell me it is a color-blind society NOW. Not when racial profiling, stop and frisk and driving while black all in violation of 4th amendment unreasonable search and seizure laws, the lethal choke holds used by police in Los Angeles under Gates and mandatory minimum sentences STILL exist for crack but not powder cocaine while there are no similar sentencing laws for meth - despite all the houses cars and apartments that blow up in its manufacture...while all of these are going on to make blacks represented in prisons far beyond their proportion of the American public. If the same proportion of whites were shaken down as blacks everybody...even you would scream and cry that they live in a police state.

And since the passing of Az 1070 and all of its clones, so do latinos.

So tell me Gene. Who are the victims of this genocide you claim is still going on?

uhhh, didn't know that the Government was imposing political correctness on anyone..care to cite the Public Law?

As to the Health insurance, the Government is imposing it on health insurance companies and empoyers with over 50 employees which translates into ahhhh dang it Cheaper health insurance policies with medical procedure Coverage..dang there goes those $10,000 deductibles, preexisting conditions, co-pays and Bankruptcy when someone racks up Huge medical bills Because they get OMG cancer

...strange Medicaid is a government health insurance too isn't it? Wonder Why States are so interested in maintaining Medicaid..Oh, yeah they have to get reelected too.

Yeah those dang light bulbs..geez wonder who thought of that? Religious Institutes Don't tell a secular society how to make or pass laws. They have Freedom of Speech, they have Freedom of Religion ...they outta be glad they got that, .....checking out nations that Don't have either for amultiple religions.

The whole election hinges on 'lite bubs'. Arrrguhhhh.

You are right Bill K.

Nothing saying freedom like homelessness, starvation, illness, burning crosses and black bodies hanging from tree limbs.

It will all be so much better when we get back to out traditional values like segregation and seperate laws for the whites and the blacks and for the rich and the poor. We need to return to the proud tradions of witch-hunts followed up by lynching and burnings at the stake.

Screw modernity, the Renaissance was a bad call. What America needs is a cultural revolution like they had in Iran during the Carter Administration. Except CHRISTIAN.

Vote Santorum. He'll take our nation Back. To the Dark Ages.

Is it much different from imposing florescent bulbs on us and calling it freedom???

Gee, I wonder who signed the law that will eliminate incandescent bulbs as we know them. (Hint: It wasn't Obama)

Yes. Imposing Your religious restrictions on my body and forcing women to be raped, yes raped, in a medically unnecessary procedure in order to get a LEGAL medical procedure is infinatly more invasive than light bulbs and being civil to others. We don't want to be dragged back into the dark ages by theocratic dictators in the name of "religous freedom."

You are spot on Jim. Our small business group plan went up so much that we had to drastically increase our deductible and lay off a part timer so we could pay for the added cost.

Yeah, the rates have gone through the roof. But why? I think they raised the rates just to try to make it seem like health care reform caused prices to rise; when in fact it should do just the opposite. These big industries are very powerful and don't want to give up the absurd profits they've been making.

Personally, I don't think a persons health should be a for profit industry. A lot of people have died unnecessarily because the insurance industry wants to make obscene money. How about a refund if the money paid in is more than what was paid out? Most of our problems have simple solutions; yet the people that can make it happen, don't want to do the right thing!

And yet it also went up in 1993 after the attempted bill FAILED.

Meaning it has nothing to do with the law , and everything to do with punishing people for upsetting the status quo and paying for the multi-million dollar advertising campaign they waged.

Do a search as I just did " health insurance costs since obamacare" see what you find ! You might be surprised ....

Were your insurance rates going down in the years prior to the act being signed into law?

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the articles to be found using the search terms you used would blame Obamacare for the increase in rates while ignoring any of the myriad of other factors that contribute to the ever rising cost of healthcare and insurance.

Health insurance premiums have doubled in the last 10 years and are scheduled to go have doubled again in 10 if ACA was not enacted...While ins conglomerates would continue to shed people who actually need insurance while jacking up the costs for healthy people

now the ins carrier is required to return premiums if 80-85% is not used for direct medical care.

The small business pays 18% more than large corporations , but now ACA creates a market where ins carriers compete for your business and there is a small business tax credit :

What You Need to Know about the Small Business Health Care Tax Credit

How will the credit make a difference for you?

For tax years 2010 through 2013, the maximum credit is 35 percent for small business employers and 25 percent for small tax-exempt employers such as charities. An enhanced version of the credit will be effective beginning Jan. 1, 2014. Additional information about the enhanced version will be added to IRS.gov as it becomes available. In general, on Jan. 1, 2014, the rate will increase to 50 percent and 35 percent, respectively.

Here's what this means for you. If you pay $50,000 a year toward workers' health care premiums – and if you qualify for a 15 percent credit, you save … $7,500. If you save $7,500 a year from tax year 2010 through 2013, that's total savings of $30,000. If, in 2014, you qualify for a slightly larger credit, say 20 percent, your savings go from $7,500 a year to $12,000 a year.

Even if you are a small business employer who did not owe tax during the year, you can carry the credit back or forward to other tax years. Also, since the amount of the health insurance premium payments are more than the total credit, eligible small businesses can still claim a business expense deduction for the premiums in excess of the credit. That's both a credit and a deduction for employee premium payments.

There is good news for small tax-exempt employers too. The credit is refundable, so even if you have no taxable income, you may be eligible to receive the credit as a refund so long as it does not exceed your income tax withholding and Medicare tax liability.

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=223666,00.html

Those are predictions correct?

I suggest there are so many variables that there can be no possible accurate predictions...

The government has never to my knowledge predicted the costs of a program correctly much less than predicted it to cost less than it actually did!

The insurance companies have been raising their rates for years. My last increase of almost 15% made me drop out and wait insuranceless for 3 months until I was eligble for Medicare. Until then my insurance rate had risen every year. I had to buy my own as I wasn't eligble at my workplace. I had a total hysterectomy in '76 and the insurance companies always insisted I pay for maternity coverage. Having boobs doesn't make us boobs. We women know when we are being treated like 2nd class citizens.

I might add that until single payer gets added to the healthcare plan the cost increases may not slow down as much as hoped. This was left out of the bill during negotiations to bring in Republicans whom voted against it anyways.

This would have helped with your costs. It would have made it harder to get increases in medical costs as the pool of persons would have been bigger. You can thank your Republicans in Congress for support of the pharmaceutical and medical insurance companies for this not being included.

They want freedom for corporations:

free to pollute the air, free to pollute the water, free to pollute the land, freedom to not pay any taxes, freedom from regulations....

Republicans want small government...

False!

Republicans will gladly recognize corporations as people, but won't give women and non-whites the same recognition.

Women and non-whites don't pony up nearly as much in the way of contributions. There is a word for it... Give me a second. Oh yeah.

WHORE!

Some of us see it. Some of us are cognizant of the precipices that our nation straddles. I think our nation won't be able to afford another Republican Administration for another 20 years. And I know for a fact that we don't have that long.

The Occupy Movement might be the game changer that actually prolongs the life of the nation, but it wouldn't take 5 minutes to get the obituary written:

"The Nation died for stupid reasons.

Somebody had to make a buck.

The money changers took control

Of the Temple of the People.

And the Pharisees spoke from Sanhedrin

And that made all the difference.

For that the nation died for stupid reasons."

Samen, if it is all the same to you, I'd like to blog this.

I'm right with you, Don. I tend to think "down the road" and my biggest fear is that at some point a Republican will be president again. He will undo all the progress that we have made, and send us back down the road to ruin.

They say you get the government you deserve. We just have too many people that vote Republican without having a good reason to do so. Value voters are the worst. They hate gays and abortion so much they are willing to hang themselves (and us ,too!) for it!

Don Quixioke: Free free.

Such as?

Just remember, back 2000 years ago the Jews were the right wing conservatives, and Jesus was the liberal, if that helps.

Which freedoms would those be exactly?

Today Jesus would be considered a dangerously radical leftist. STILL a Liberal!

You've made some generalized accusations. I'm asking for a list of specific rights that you claim have been taken away by the "authoritarian left".

I'm asking for a list of specific rights that you claim have been taken away by the "authoritarian left".

They have set up courts which hold people responsible for acts they can prove they did not commit.

They have set up courts which hold people responsible for acts they can prove they did not commit.

What courts are you talking about?

CC A little less vague, maybe? How about post the right wing blog you got that from so we can see what myth you are talking about...

CC A little less vague, maybe?

*chuckles*

What courts are you talking about?

Family courts.

No court system is perfect but I don't think family courts are any more likely to hold someone responsible for something they can prove they didn't do than any other type of court. I also wasn't aware that "authoritarian leftists" set up the family court system.

No court system is perfect but I don't think family courts are any more likely to hold someone responsible for something they can prove they didn't do than any other type of court.

Family courts have ordered men to pay child support for children they can prove they did not father.

Family courts have ordered men to pay child support for children they can prove they did not father.

And the left did that? Prove it.

Those laws have been on the books forever.

yep... Family court made a guy whose boy's grandmother made him and her daughter pay child support, the DNA came back 99.9% not counting the fact that the boys Look just like him. even more so since they've grown. Now all of a sudden he wants to 'claim' them.

I'm still waiting for proof that it is a left wing conspiracy. LOL

I want to keep my money away from druggies and welfare queens and old people.

MeanGene you make me laugh, I am an old person and I do not want your money!

MeanGene you picked the perfect name. Your viewpoint of people and the world is the saddest and most heartless (and UnAmerican) I have ever run across. Go eat some chocolate. That is a proven mood enhancer.

MeanGene you picked the perfect name.

I only picked the first half. My parents picked the second half so I can't take all the credit.

Your viewpoint of people and the world is the saddest and most heartless (and UnAmerican) I have ever run across.

My viewpoint is accurate. Believe the worst of people and you will always be right about them. If you want to know why people do anything, just think about the most evil motive there could be and you'll have it figured out because the natural state of humanity is to do evil things. That's why children are born selfish and most people never outgrow that stage.

Go eat some chocolate. That is a proven mood enhancer.

Half of my relatives have diabetes. I'm not touching anything with sugar in it with a ten foot pole. If you think I'm in a bad mood now, just wait until the doctor tells me that my pancreas is off on permanent vacation.

MeanGene, we can but make the best of what our life is about or make the worst of it. I've met a lot of people in my lifetime. Some are evil (very few) some are soso and for the most part, most are good people.

Don't let your physical health put blinders on you for the good things in life. When we can't walk the path we want to because of obstructions, then we must think of ways around the obstructions and do the best we can. It is what it is. Always though not alone, we are never truly alone in the world.

You are here on the NV, know this, you are not alone in cybertime. Take care and do the best you can. ♥ hugs and prayers sent your way.

By all means, have some pixie-stix.

MeanGene, we can but make the best of what our life is about or make the worst of it. I've met a lot of people in my lifetime. Some are evil (very few) some are soso and for the most part, most are good people.

I disagree, and here's the reason why:

The welfare state is basically a hired gun. The reason the welfare state exists is because voters would rather have the government be the hired gun taking care of the issue so that they themselves have no ownership in the problem.

I like eating at restaurants. Why? Because I don't have to do dishes, I don't have to deal with gathering the ingredients, and I get what I want without taking ownership of the hassle. I pay off other people to deal with those problems. Is that responsible behavior?

Not really. I go camping and fishing which is a wake-up call because when you pull a trout out of the lake and you want it for breakfast (yummy!) then you realize it ain't like a menu order. Clean it, cook it, and having the resources to do so is a world apart from a fish dinner at Long John Silver's.

People are selfish creatures. Even while President Obama speaks harshly against wealthy people not sharing, remember this... he's sitting on $12 Million of net worth he calls his own.

This from the NYTimes today: ...

based on Santorum's tax return disclosure this week, he has given the least amount to charity of the four presidential candidates who have disclosed their tax returns. (Ron Paul has not.) His charitable giving was just 1.8 percent of his adjusted gross income.

The Obamas were the highest, giving 14.2 percent, even though their income was second lowest.

I believe the Obamas also pay about 35% in annual taxes, unlike Romney.

The Obamas were the highest, giving 14.2 percent, even though their income was second lowest.

Ah so now you want to talk about charity by the Obama's ... Lets take a trip down memory lane shall we ....

Up until recent years when their income increased sharply from book revenues and a Senate salary, Obama's family donated a relatively minor amount of its earnings to charity. From 2000 through 2004, the senator and his wife never gave more than $3,500 a year in charitable donations -- about 1 percent of their annual earnings. In 2005, however, that total jumped to $77,315 (4.7 percent of annual earnings), and to $60,307 in 2006 (6.1 percent).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/25/obama-tax-returns-low-on-_n_93353.html

What you forget when they were giving 1 % you know before the big Book Money ?

And as far as tax rate.... Sorry tax rates are not decided based on what you want to pay they are decided based on the Federal Tax Code....

And based on the numbers, I think their tax rate was more in the 25 % range... Not 35 % but if you can find a hard number that says they payed 35 % please provide it !

Today, the President released his 2010 federal income and gift tax returns. He and the First Lady filed their income tax return jointly and reported an adjusted gross income of $1,728,096. The vast majority of the family’s income is the proceeds from the sale of the President’s books. The Obamas paid $453,770 in total federal tax.

That's from USgovinfo. I couldn't put it in quotes, the editor is screwy.

Ah ....That article was dated Apr 18 2011 ... you knew that right? (smiles)

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2011/04/obama_2011_tax_returns.html

Not exactly current ! Those are his 2010 returns ... Not 2011 !!! I don't care what the title says but you can't on Apr 18th 2011 file your tax returns on money you haven't made yet in 2011 ...Just saying!

Tell it to the governement link, that's the latest I could find. You just hate being wrong.

You just hate being wrong.

Explain where or about what I am wrong ....Please ...

Then tell me how you pay your 2011 taxes in Apr 2011 ?

You explain that And I will gladly admit I am wrong!

Tell it to the governement link,

Don't like my source how about the White House .... Its still dated Apr 18 2011 hahahaha

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/18/president-obama-and-vice-president-biden-s-tax-returns-and-tax-receipts

that's the latest I could find

That doesn't mean that its current ....

uhhh Jim, ambivalent wrote I kinda see a miscommunication going on here....

the President released his 2010 tax returns

Thanks MStanley .. that is not what they wrote ... that post should have been in Block Quotes its a cut and paste.... But go back to # 12.8 .... Where they are comparing President Obama's numbers to just released Republican candidates numbers...But using 2010 numbers... As if they are 2011 tax returns ...

Please read #12. 8 and #12.9 to see where this started ... But I can see where your coming from... And Thanks ...

well, it was stated....

couldn't put it in quotes, the editor is screwy.

MS

Its not worth your time or mine ... But again thanks ...

People are selfish creatures. Even while President Obama speaks harshly against wealthy people not sharing, remember this... he's sitting on $12 Million of net worth he calls his own.

He's fine with paying his share of the taxes on it. Unlike a great many of the rest of the 1% who whine and pout and say that they won't create jobs if they can't keep their money in off-shore tax shelters.

And Reagan was being a civilizing influence when he sold weapons to the Iranians who had held Americans hostage? When he was setting up death squads in el Salvadore?

Don

And that applies to the Muslims and Christians taking over governments HOW? Well other than to attempt to derail what was being talked about...

Now please support your statement and Identify the Christian group with the influence to take over the US government?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_Street_Group

Next question?

Next question?

OK ... that's really that you want to go with?

The Fellowship ....

Well that is interesting...MarkD

Before we start you do understand the topic that SamenSlow and I were discussing right...

The Muslim Brotherhood and their influence in Egypt VS this fictitious Christian organization he said was going to take over the US government ...

Now you think its "The Fellowship" Really ? Sorry but you will have to bring more to the table than a Wiki with ancient information about a secret organization...

But, I'll listen..Bring it!

The Muslim Brotherhood is in charge of nothing. SCAF is in charge of everything. The Brotherhood made a deal with the military. The same military rules that ruled during the time of Mubarak. The elections and Parliament mean nothing. Perhaps you have missed the fact that since the first days of Mubarak's fall, no army or security (police) people have been charged with anything. I have NO use for the Brotherhood, but their current victory will prove to be short lived. I fear more the bloody revolution that may come. This revolution was about freedom and hunger. Nothing has been gained to stop the hunger.

The Brotherhood came to prominence during the reign of King Faud (about 1919-23) who not so secretly wanted to be Caliph after the rise of Ataturk. They were a mixture of religious and nationalist members. Both Nasser and Sadat had their roots in The Brotherhood. Worse than The Brotherhood are the Salafi (Nour Party). However, both groups have shown themselves to be after power only. The Egyptian people are not so dumb. Both the army and The Brotherhood blew most of the goodwill they had with the people because they have been too open in their grabs for power and efforts to protect their interests. The stage is now set for the bloody stage of the revolution - as much as the people of Egypt wanted to avoid it.

The Christian Right of the Republican Party has a chance to take power. Look at the fits they are giving Mitt. Santorum's campaign is all about Christian values. We still have our Moral Majority and other religious groups attempting to impose THEIR view of Christian values on this country.

And that applies to the Muslims and Christians taking over governments HOW? Well other than to attempt to derail what was being talked about...

I would think the CIA's involvement with the Afghan War, arming and training the mujahadeen - the Muslim fundamentalists - over the egalitarian secular freedom fighters. It was the mujahadeen who became the Taliban. Likewise their support for Radically Islamic Pakistan over democratic India. They trusted the fundamentalists over the politically pragmatic democrats against the USSR. The CIA also trained and supplied Saddam Hussein for the very same reason. Of course Reagan armed the American hostage takers in Iran. He thought they'd be using them against the Russians. Not blowing up Marine bases in Beruit.

Now the very same people who we had trained and armed are flying jets into our skyscrapers and the Muslims we were so happy to be in bed with are now stealing the sheets.

So yeah, tell us its about religion.

As for the threat posed by American Christian Sharia...Christian and Muslim fundamentalists are both in a agreement with wahat a woman's place should be. Pro-Life and Anti-contraception positions are gateway drugs to the American equivalent of the burka. All fundamentalist agree on homosexuality. And it was American politicians and political and Christian religious groups that helped engineer the "Kill the Gays" legislation in Uganda. The C Street House by the Family in particular. We also have a history of Spanish Inquisition style witch-hunts. The most famous being in Salem Massasschusetts. Likewise Southern Baptists were complicit in the racial terror campaigns and fully supportive of Jim Crow. If they had been any force for good and made any difference in the racial climate, they would have. But they did not. They were party to the segregationist social order.

Those are traditional family values.

Specific enough for you Jim?

Jim44

Norquist:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/grover_norquists_jihad.html

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46777

GW Bush

http://lundissimo.info/wtc/bushbinladen.html

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspiracytheories/saudi.html

These are all FACT.

Be afraid , be very afraid

Now look at ALEC:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Legislative_Exchange_Council

ALEC exposed

http://alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed

Personally I am worried about the damage that the GOP will do to this country.

I want freedom from the social contract, I want the safety net so often abused as a hammock by welfare queens to be shredded and discarded, I want absolutely no government 'help' given to anyone for any reason and I want an end to law-imposed compassion.

Compassion sucks. I believe in Social Darwinism.

If you dropped out of High School and you're poor, then guess what? You DESERVE TO SUFFER and reap what you've sown. There's no reason to give a dropout anything remotely resembling compassion. Screw them and tell them to sleep in the bed they made, I don't give a damned about their well being because they didn't give a damned about their own well being.

If you've used illegal drugs and you're poor, then guess what? You DESERVE TO SUFFER and reap what you've sown. These idiots who have ever touched illegal drugs BROKE THE LAW and so there's no reason for them to benefit from the largess of any welfare law. They're outlaws, they lived as outlaws and they can die as outlaws for all I care. Compassion for outlaws is just dumb and has no part in Social Darwinism.

If you're 65 freaking years old and your life savings are ZERO then it's not like you woke up yesterday and all of a sudden you were old. You DESERVE TO SUFFER the fate you wrote for yourself over the course of many years through living beyond your means. Go ahead and eat cat food and whine about how pathetic your golden years are. It amuses me.

I'm not a 'compassionate conservative' by any stretch of the imagination. I believe compassion is a stupid idea thought up by pinko commies for an excuse to raise my taxes. My Christmas Card list has zero addresses on it and I don't give out Valentines. I didn't even call my own Mother on her birthday last week. Compassion and kindness are things for suckers.

The next time I see a homeless creep with a cardboard sign that says "will work for food", I'll throw him a cardboard sign with the McDonalds job application website.

In comparison to me, Ebeneezer Scrooge was Mother Theresa.

So MeanGene is anti-Thomas Paine who also made the case for America revolting from King George's England. The social contract was his brain child, but had existed in one form or another since the Mayflower Compact.

So MeanGene says that America was founded wrong and that breaking from England was a bad idea. Even though he hates kings.

MeanGene is supposedly very educated, but he really doesn't know very much.

OK MeanGreen don't like us. But let us try to make ALL of us better and more prosperous, help those who need it, and care for those who can't care for themselves.

BTW Have you tried to get a job at McDonald's lately? You need a computer, at least an hour to fill out the forms and questionnaire and be one of thousands in an anonymous data base. I have it from a good source that many managers don't even look at on-line applications and just hire friends and relatives.

Almost all jobs use the computer for "hiring" now. Many don't have access to that rescourse. Wanna let 'em use yours? It'll get them to work if by some miracle they get that job.

* plunk* (jumps down from soap box)

OK MeanGreen don't like us. But let us try to make ALL of us better and more prosperous, help those who need it, and care for those who can't care for themselves.

You NEVER offer care for those who can't care for themselves because that encourages liars and cheats to claim that they too cannot care for themselves even though they're just plain lazy.

Do you REALLY believe that 47 Million Americans need food stamps? I find it rather difficult to believe that 1 in 7 Americans are so pathetic that they can't scrape up enough cash to feed themselves and have to rely on their neighbors' already extremely oppressive taxes to go to market.

Food is not THAT expensive. I didn't even eat at home one time yesterday, I had a breakfast burrito from a cafeteria ($4), a slice of pizza and a soda ($3) and a hot dog with a soda at Costco ($1.50) for a grand total of $9.50 eating out.

We live in a nation where you can eat every meal out, stay under $10 per day doing so, and we've got liars, cheats and thieves saying they can't feed themselves so they need food stamps. They're full of crap. They're just gaming the system and they're not needy, they're just greedy.

Minimum wage in the USA is what, $7.25 per hour? So $10 per day worth of eating out every meal is how much work out of an 8-hour day? Figure they're making $60 per day, so food costs them a lousy 1/6th of their pay to eat like a King, never washing a dish and never cooking their own grub.

BTW Have you tried to get a job at McDonald's lately? You need a computer, at least an hour to fill out the forms and questionnaire and be one of thousands in an anonymous data base.

If you've got a library card then you can get a computer. They're readily available at the public library. Totally free to use, free internet, no cost, and so the only reason for computers to block people from getting work is that these people are too stupid and pathetic to know how to use a big, bad, scary computer.

I'm not even going to touch the part about taking a whole hour to fill out an application for a 40-hour per week job. That's just ridiculous.

The major causative factor for unemployment in the USA is the lack of literacy. About 40% of Americans today are functionally illiterate, meaning that they can't perform beyond a 6th-grade elementary school level in reading and writing skills.

Why not? Mostly because they're lazy, that's why not. We've got a national average High School dropout rate of about 24%, meaning that about 1 in 4 High School Freshmen starting the 9th Grade will never complete the 12th Grade. They will not be college ready, nor will they be workforce ready because they get lazy and stupid and drop out before achieving the skills needed to succeed in America.

Why do they do it? Because the safety net lures them in, with promises of an easy-going carefree life on the dole regardless of the efforts they do or do not put into succeeding in life.

The social safety net does far more damage than good with its false promises of society owing kids a living just for being born American. Until these kids get the idea through their heads that nobody owes them a free ride, then they're going to keep trying to treat life as a free ride and wind up getting caught up in the socialist trap set for them.

Employers want to employ people. Wal*Mart even has computers set up to fill out applications in case potential employees just don't have a computer, but even that's not enough because these employees can't read a computer screen. They dropped out of school, did drugs, hung out with fellow morons and never prepared for their futures.

They're not employable. If you can't use a computer in 21st Century America, then you're pretty much stuck in limbo because even garbage trucks use computers nowadays. If you can't use a computer then you're literally too ill-educated to be hired to take out the garbage.

I bet most of the GOP candidates, especially Santorum, is right up there on the top-right section right next to a certain Germnay dictator who started WWII.

Santorum, is right up there on the top-right section right next to a certain Germnay dictator who started WWII.

And I thought it was the Right that used the HITLER comparison? Interesting On minute Santurom is a Religious right nut and now since that doesn't seem to be working ...

He is HITLER ..... I guess we at least get to see where the Left is coming from now ... The call him HITLER ANGLE !!!

jupmod ..... You stay with that and lets see how that works out for ya !

Maybe because it's true, Jim, given his far-right social conservative and Authoritian stances?

Please, Jim, if you want to be blind to what the man wants to do, go ahead, for I'm not blind in his quest to limit people's freedoms.

Plenty of Iraqi citizens died regardless. The American forces were already killing them. He just made sure the world knew about it.

And Wikileaks is not the enemy. Whistle blowing is not treason. Blowing the covewr of a CIA operative should be and Gitmo and the policy of torture recruited far more extremists than Manning ever could have done. The whole Iraq War was never about justice or prevention. It was about one man's need to get one up over his daddy at the cost of over 4 thousand American lives, countless maimed and traumatized and far more Iraqi citizens made dead maimed or homeless.

Not to mention giving Iran a whole new playground where there was once only enemy territory. Reagan would have been proud.

Whistle blowing is not treason.

Providing classified information to the enemy is an act of treason ....

Wikipedia is not the enemy.

American soldiers were killing civilians and they should not have been. 9/11 happened because we were attacked by people who used to be our friends. What do you think will happen 20 years hence from us invading, occupying and slaughtering indiscriminately?

Blame that on Manning? No. Our being in Iraq was criminal from the start.

Blame Manning for what Manning did...

You don't get a free pass ... He did what he did.. And must face the consequences...

Our being in Iraq has nothing to do with his illegal acts ... And you know that! You can try to find sympathy or make Blah Blah excuses...But bottom line he did it ...

What about the American soldiers who did what they did? The independant contractors (Blackwater) who were paid by the American govt who engaged in theft, coldblooded civilian murder and child prostitution? Or was that just a case of guys with guns being guys?

Barack Obama promised transparency of the government. Manning had some serious guts to stand up to that @!$%#er and let the people know that the government lies lies lies to it's people still to this day.

He sits in prision for it. Other reasons to vote for none of the above or some third party.

Republicans care more about gays and abortion than anything else. nuff said.

Barack obama still employs the crooks fetured in "Inside Job"

Barack obama never closed Gitmo and human beings still sit in prision without trial.

Barack Obama has condoned military action all aorund the world that costs both sides and not in the defense of American's freedom.

They're leaning so far to the right and so north in Authoritarianism that they pretty much are exactly like Hitler.

Hitler committed genocide. None of the republican candidates are even close to being as evil as he was.

Hitler committed genocide. None of the republican candidates are even close to being as evil as he was.

CC is unaware of right-wing verbal attacks and assaults on Muslims, which mirror Nazi antisemitism to a tee. For evidence, scroll up to post #14 which attacks the Muslim Brotherhood. CC may also recall right-wingers passing laws banning Shari'a law.

CC is unaware of right-wing verbal attacks and assaults on Muslims, which mirror Nazi antisemitism to a tee.

The Nazis killed millions of people. The Republicans are opposed to Shariah law. The Republicans and the Nazis have nothing in common.

CC is invited to read post #18: "I am sure the Muslims want to aid him in that endeavor also..." What do Muslims have to do with anything?

What's funny is seeing right-wing attacks on Manning and John Walker Lindh then, when Obama orders a strike on American Anwar al-Awlak, it's how dare the government order the assassination of American citizens!

You have still not shown any evidence that the Republican candidates support genocide.

What's funny is seeing right-wing attacks on Manning and John Walker Lindh then, when Obama orders a strike on American Anwar al-Awlak, it's how dare the government order the assassination of American citizens!

That is because Obama is a Democrat.

The Republicans are opposed to Shariah law.

They are? Since when? Republicans embrace Shari'a law! Their claim to oppose it is a lie. They ALWAYS use the phrase "the Bible says..." and NEVER "the gospel says..." because the Old Testament in the Bible is the foundation of Shari'a law. Republican assertions that the Constitution comes from God is absolutely Koranic. Right-wingers are Muslim and exhibit contempt of Christian values by their actions. They want to convert public schools into madrasas, inscribe the Ten Commandments, same ones as in Islam, on courthouse walls, impose Islamic male militarism onto women and gays. They call it "freedom", freedom to impose their values on everyone else.

You have still not shown any evidence that the Republican candidates support genocide.

CC is playing deflection games with "genocide" which is not the topic of this thread nor in post #21 to with this responds. The topic is "Authoritarian Right Wingers Want Government to Impose "Moral Values" on Us -- And Call It "Freedom". This is entirely fascist. CC should learn what the word fascist means. The fascist dictator enjoys complete freedom from the rule of law. The fascist ruling class will use moral elitism to justify their rule. We see this right now with Boehner claiming the Catholic church need not obey the rule of law because they are morally superior.

Right-wingers are Muslim and exhibit contempt of Christian values by their actions.

Muslims consider Mohammad to be a prophet of Allah and believe that the Koran is divine revelation. Not a single Republican candidate holds that belief. Not a single Republican candidate could possibly be considered a Muslim.

The topic is "Authoritarian Right Wingers Want Government to Impose "Moral Values" on Us -- And Call It "Freedom". This is entirely fascist.

No it is not.

The fascist dictator enjoys complete freedom from the rule of law.

So do all other dictators.

The fascist ruling class will use moral elitism to justify their rule.

All governments claim that their actions are morally justified. Not a single government will admit that their actions are not justified.

We see this right now with Boehner claiming the Catholic church need not obey the rule of law because they are morally superior.

Putting morality ahead of the law is a respected American tradition.

CC is invited to read post #18: "I am sure the Muslims want to aid him in that endeavor also..." What do Muslims have to do with anything?

You want to use my entire quote ? Or just use part of it out of context? I wrote......

I am sure the Muslims want to aid him in that endeavor also... Plenty of Iraqi civilians are believed to have died because of him..

I think its quite clear that I was stating that Muslims would welcome his paying the price for the deaths of Muslims due to his releasing that information...

And its typical for your to try to twist the meaning ....

CC is unaware of right-wing verbal attacks and assaults on Muslims, which mirror Nazi antisemitism to a tee. For evidence, scroll up to post #14 which attacks the Muslim Brotherhood.

You want to address my comments ... how about you address my comments to me ? You THINK I said something ? Come to the sources debate me, Point out the attack I made on the Muslim Brotherhood! Be specific or anyone reading this will begin to see through the B.S. to the true core of what you are saying...

You have twice referenced my comments and not once addressed they directly Why? Are you afraid to confront me? You have a problem with what I wrote!!!! Come to me ...

You seem to have no problem using my comments in a nasty little swipe ...Be the man and come tell me whats wrong with # 14 and #18 ...

I'll tell you what Covah .... Bring it !

All governments claim that their actions are morally justified. Not a single government will admit that their actions are not justified.

It's not the American government, in and of itself, I fear. I fear those who would control the government for their own personal self interests. For example, the Koch brothers pledging to donate $100 million to defeat President Obama. Many of the uber rich such as the Koch brothers care nothing about morality ... only about money ... especially if they are the ones who have it and the only ones controlling it.

Plenty of Iraqi civilians are believed to have died because of him [Bradly Manning] .

Prove it! Last I heard wikileaks was careful NOT to release information that would put lives in danger.

I think its quite clear that I was stating that Muslims would welcome his paying the price for the deaths of Muslims due to his releasing that information...

Prove it!

Point out the attack I made on the Muslim Brotherhood!

You brought them up, you tell us what the Muslim Brotherhood has to do with anything.

Here it is, #10:

What is rather sad is the those who cry out over an Islamist takeover of Egypt are often the same people who favor America as a Christian nation.

This is exactly correct. The Republican nutters who preach "creationism", which is from the same Old Testament in Islam, want to ban Shari'a law with is also based on Old Testament law. But more specifically "those who cry out over an Islamist takeover of Egypt are often the same people who favor America[n]" support of Israel, which might be inconvenienced by growth of Islamic fundamentalism in Egypt, hence putting the security of a foreign state ahead of American principle of democratic rule. Another example is the Shari'a-hating Republicans claiming religious law should come ahead of secular law in the whining Catholics health insurance case, again the very definition of theocracy. There is also the Republicans who want to put the 10 Commandments on courthouse walls, the 10 Commandments that are identical in Islam. Note too that Republicans always say "the Bible" which includes the Old Testament, same in Islam, never "the gospel" because they have no clue what the gospel is.

Now please support your statement and Identify the Christian group with the influence to take over the US government? And rule it under Christian law... Not likely in a Million years... But!!!

There you are. By the way, they are called the "religious right" for a reason.

Identify the Christian group with the influence to take over the US government? And rule it under Christian law.

Rick Santorum.

Got to love it when I qualify a statement... with "believed" You demand I prove it!!!

Plenty of Iraqi civilians are believed to have died because of him [Bradly Manning] .

Its just as easy for me to say Prove me wrong ... are believed to have.... Prove that statement false!

Now

You brought them up, now tell us what the Muslim Brotherhood has to do with anything at all.

Yes I did ....but you said ...

For evidence, scroll up to post #14 which attacks the Muslim Brotherhood.

And I asked you .....

Point out the attack I made on the Muslim Brotherhood! Be specific

Now you want to put it on me? NO NO NO ... You made the statement ...I called You on it ... Defend your statement... Where did I "attack" the Muslim Brotherhood...

You can play those games with others but you make a claim support it... Don't try to change the discussion and make me defend myself...You made the accusation ...Defend it!

Where did I "attack" the Muslim Brotherhood...

they were supporting and helping the Christians to when they began KILLING THEM...

Prove the Muslim Brotherhood kills Christians!

The only difference between Sharia law and The Ten Commandments is a different source book, but the methods to apply each set of rules on society are the same.

Numbers 5:22

The traditions spring from the same source. Muslims recognize a spiritual kinship between themselves, Jew and Christians. We are all called People of the Book. Christ is recognized as one of the most honored prophets.

It is just politically advantageous on all sides to ignore this.

The traditions spring from the same source which was Zoroaster. It's a good idea to read up on Zoroaster. He was right on, much better than Jesus. Zoroaster said we earn the grace of God by fighting evil, not by submitting to it, like Jesus said. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all corruptions of Zoroastrianism.

Dolly, you are right. It is happening. It is something you do NOT want to witness.

Christian faith and Christian principals are very fine things...when it is used to justify helping those in need, feeds the hungry, provides shelter to the homeless, forestalls the need for prisons by investing in universal quality public education, provides medical care to the sick, focuses on rehabilitation rather than punishment.

Even if it is done on the public dime.

What the modern day Pharisees and religious fascists are doing is NOT Christianity. It is abomination carried out in HIS NAME.

It is the imposition of a police state of not the LOGOS, but merely the Brand Name (TM) of Christ and Christianity.

There is no "Love your neighbor. Render unto Caesar"...the moneychangers - the lobbyists - control the govt, the Temple of the People. Christ would have had to get his sandal surgically removed from their backsides!

Easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven.

When I was hungry, naked sick in prison...as you do for the least of them, you do for me [to do a whole mess of paraphrasing.]

Even on the public dime.

That is why I pay taxes, as my duty and my tithe. NOT for oil subsidies or so the wealthy, the mythical "job-creators," can get a break on how much they render to Caesar. The well do not need a physician and the wealthy don't need tax breaks!

And how does this equate to smaller government with having government involved in our sex lives?

Stay out of my sex life, but when I have kids I can't afford then I want food stamps and WIC and AFDC and School Lunches, right??

Only if society has ZERO RESPONSIBILITY for the well being of poor children does society have ZERO SKIN IN THE GAME when it comes to irresponsible breeders using their vaginas like a clown car popping out kids like some kind of damned Duggar family.

End all welfare and tell parents to go straight to HELL when they ask for government help feeding their damned pets and then you'd have a point. Otherwise, the taxpayer is stuck with the bill for despicable poor people and their amoral behaviors breeding like damned rabbits.

What ever happened to freedom of religion, individual rights, etc.

They got abandoned when damned social engineer Democrats wanted to stick taxpayers with the bills for the irresponsible behavior of Welfare Queens and their 30 anchor babies. A vagina isn't just for reproduction anymore, it's a freaking mailbox for welfare checks.