Obama tax plan runs into opposition in Senate

It will never be a people for the governed again, unless we as a people unite, pull on one rope, and in a word start a revolution. Not with guns or violence, but one of united will, spirit, and mind....
Now what do you suppose would happen if say a 150 million Americans, simply walked out on the streets, highways, freeways, roads, layed down, stopped all flow of moving traffic, commerce, etc, and effectively shut down the country. Oh, there would be turmoil, some bloodshed no doubt, and even a few unfortunate deaths, but does anyone think congress, or the police, or even the military could control such a thing? No, and in the end after say a couple of weeks or even a month of a country shut down, congress would do the bidding of its people, us.
Of course you never create such a movement without a platform of ideas, legislative reform, laws, etc, to simply put forth, and say this is the way we see it, and this is what we as a people want done.....
Now there are those out there who right off the bat will say, your going to get run over, or you'll run out of candy bars and bottled water, so for the serious people, it could be done with adequate planning and execution of the general strike......
Just a thought, must be the spaghetti i'm eating...........................

No, the Wall Street bailout was done because of international concerns and the value/credibility of our dollar; the Wall Street bailout did also give money to people who were stealing it from us.  And much of it was caused by the subprime lending mess, which Obama helped us get into.  But all were pushed and told it was an absolute emergency.  So it passed...led by Democrats and their majority vote (remember the push was by Pelosi and Reid), but plenty of Republicans were brought in also...but many less Republicans than Democrats.

But we, the American people, are wiser and more wary now.

Pity that Americans were not wiser sooner on Obama, and his socialist plans.

Johan,
Your idea works if done in the right place.......DC.....say April 15th.....10 million man/woman march outside the capitol building just walking back and forth and watching the the little people (read congress) attempting to make their way to "work?", suffering the same fate as William Wallace (Braveheart) being spit onIf they know about it, they would probably stay home, so the office in their district would need to suffer the same "visitation".

These people in DC need to "tighten up", as the oil business seems to have plenty of tar, and my neighbor has plenty of chickens......

Johan:  Remember back in the 80's, I think, there was a Hands Across America movement where people joined hands in a line across the USA?  Where are those leaders who put that movement together?  Surely, if people could join together to do Hands Across America they could join together to show an opposition force to the Washington insiders and their schewed policies.

Instead of laying down across the road, join hands and show solidarity.

Another thing, tax season is getting under way.  A lot of people claim zero or one dependent in order to get a large refund of taxes, which is allowing the government to use their money all year long, interest free.  If the majority of people would claim more dependents and have less money withheld from their checks, it would make a huge impact on Washington.  Also, everyone can file an extension and subsequently file their tax returns as late as August.  The delay in the government getting the cash would also make an impact on them.  There is an old saying "Money Talks.. B-S Walks".

Any ideas out there for creating a Tax Payers Revolt?

What happens to the rich is they get out of touch with the normal families I have seen it happen for example ( why do the workers need extra money i am doing fine)

the same thing with the senators they are all millionaire's some many times over so how can they relate to the economic problems of the middle class?

no stimulus package is going to work with out  one of these happening or give the granddaddy of all stimulus packages 1. giving every taxpayer 50,000.00 2. Lower every mortgage holders interest rate to 3% 3. keep gas at 1.50 a gallon 4. get out of Iraq and Afghanistan. 5. curb government spending 6. cut off NASA are we ever going to take a vacation to mars? then why spend the money? how cares if there is life their I am sure there is some type of life out in space but they are not feeding my kids.

You will see some very happy Americans consuming their little hearts out! But the wall street guys want their profits before we Americans consume their products?  is that putting the cart before the horse?

no 20 dollar or 2,000 dollar stimulus package is going to work they have already screwed it up they mise well go all the way.

The American Government Owes the American citizens to get the country in order and stop all the he said she said rep-dem. get in touch with the nation.

Obama is not going to do a thing as we see the senators are already treating him as wet behind the ears! I'm sure he is a nice guy and all but he has butlers and cooks and secret service taking care of him for the next 4 years what about us?

brain food

Think about it.  If someone gives you $10 more a week are you going to run out and buy a new TV?  Heck AEP has already told people they provide electric to that they are going to try to get a 50% rate hike over the next two years. 

$3000 to an employer in tax credits........that downright funny when you consider their health benefits cost alone! 

Is $500 per taxpayer going to keep someone from losing their home to foreclosure? 

All this for a measley $800B  wow, what a bargain.  Guess Obama isn't going to get everything he wants after all!

$10 - $20 a week!

Wow!

Lottery Line here I come, 40 oz - make it two or three.

I might even take the misses out to the Yellow Arches for dinner.

Watching these bumbs try to right the ship is a comic's dream. Unlimited material!

SAD! SAD! SAD!

C H A N G E = Come Help A Nutjob Get Elected!

We be in big trouble!

Exactly.  $10 a week and you can get 3 40-OEs.

LOL.

Welcome to Washington DC Obama where great ideas and ambitious visions are cut down to size. Now you'll realise why nothing ever gets accomplished in this country in an expediant manner.

Pardon me, but BullSh**. Why is it only the Dems you're choosing to point out as the spendthrifts? As I recall this was a bipartisan bailout they bent us over with.

Both of the parties need to check out of the senate and go home, especially those that have been there for more than two terms. Maybe if we had term limits on Congress, the corruption wouldn't run quite as deep.

But then again, maybe pigs will learn to fly...

check the voting record on the $700 billion bill, stormAz . MAJORITY of Dems voted in favor of it. MAJORITY of Republicans voted AGAINST it. If you didn't like the bill, remember that at the polls in 2010.

Thank you Darrell. Most libs only remember what they want to. And of course you have to remember where they may NOT get their information from. Kind of like when Obama was running. Interviewing people in Harlem about his polices. NONE of them knew the important issues and when H.Stern's representative stated to them about his running mate Sarah Palin, they ALL agreed she would make a good VP. Just because you are able to vote does not mean you KNOW THE ISSUES or what's at stake. AND our national security issue fell by the wayside.  It seems that it is all too important now. His mettle certainly will be tested. Not only with his own party but with all the issues globally.

Maybe tax stimulus money should be given ONLY to the wealthy, cause $500/$1000 wont help the poor!

Do you really think $500/$1000 would really make a difference to the wealthy? What a bad idea all around! If we keep printing money; it will be worthless (real close now)! Even Kerry's lame brain ideas are better than Obama's! I wonder if he will even get a kiss from his own party when they are done reaming him out! Ted Nugent for President!!!!!

I would be more than willing not to take a tax stimulous providing the house reps would take a pay cut and do away with their perks, oops they just gave themselves a raise.

What the congress and senate need to do is work on commission and be paid accordingly such as issues they resolve like solving the economic problems, healthcare, social security etc.  On the other hand they probably would have to stand in line at the employment office.

Funny, right after the TARP went thru there was an election,, and guess what! The people bless their black hearts sent the bums back in droves! only 1-2% of incumbents did not get reelected! So I guess we get the government we deserve....

Democracy the worst Tyranny.

They'd probably have reelected W. given the chance!

If they could find it. Most of them suffer from cranial rectum syndrome.

One of the many problems with the bailout of the financial sector is once again a White House inserted a line which allowed Bush to ignore the will of Congress and the voice of the American people. The Bush Administration told Congress and the nation that toxic assets would be auctioned the White House inserted language into the bill to the affect that only TARPA funds used for auctions would be subject to regulation of executive compensation and then issued exactly $0.00 at auction executives can still get their golden parachutes with no review another great job avoiding the will of the people. The government was to gain control of toxic assets and hold them until the packages could be disentangled or sold to recoup whole or partial value. None of this was done.

JKHayes 

Looks to me like the scarecrows have found a brain.

And what is that?  Spend more money this country doesn't have?  Are you ready for some inflation?  Your $80 a month won't be worth squat if this much money is printed and dumped without backing.

The president-elect tapped Carol Browner, who headed the Clinton administration's EPA, to take a new White House position coordinating policy on energy, environment and climate change.

See above, Obama already created a new job (of course it's a govt one). He promised to create or save 3 million jobs. He's only got 2,999,999 to go, and he's not even officially president yet.

Attaboy, Barack!

CLIMATE CHANGE------------I heard only yesterday that the global ice is the same as it was in 1979.

rose,

yeah, I heard some guy say the same thing....must be true!

Larry--I'm no scientist, but they are also saying that the PACIFIC is the coldest its been on record since the 80's. Also, very cold temps. being recorded EVERYWHERE this past year. Our planet goes through changes. It happens. I think a lot of this stuff is fabricated. Now, some of those scientists who are on the front end of this saying their is no global warming needs to have a talk with Mr. GORE and maybe enlighten the rest of us. TOOOOO many conflicting reports and I for one would like to see the rumors revealed.

well say what you will about the enviroment, but as for energy, anything that gets us the heck out of relying on the middle east is fine by me.

Poor Al Gore - no global warming - no millions of dollars scammed from the American government and businesses.. 

Global waming ...melting ice caps ...sudden inflow of large amount of fresh water in the oceans.....decreased salinity.....It's adverse effect on the great conveyar belt.....Lower temperatures all through Europe and east coast....google it ...

Just because it's on the internet, doesn't make it true.  Google that.

rose,

here's a link to a booklet from the national association of scientists that describes the climate issues:

http://dels.nas.edu/dels/rpt_briefs/climate_change_2008_final.pdf

it's cold in Washington this week, probably because there's a La Nina condition in the eastern Pacific ocean. Weather and Climate are 2 different things. Climate trends are quite clear. The earth is warming, has been warming for the past 12,000 years, and barring another ice age, will continue to warm. The fact that the Arctic ice cap is shrinking along with mountain glaciers all across the globe is observed fact. What, other than a warming  planet could cause a global change such as this??? Only a few hard core deniers dispute the fact of a warming planet.

The main scientific question is how much of the warming can be attributed to greenhouse gas emissions. That's a different, and a valid question. My personal belief is that Al Gore goes a little too far when he says that the science is "settled". But only a little too far, and the science is pretty darn good, but not perfect. Global warming accelerated by greenhouse gas emissions is the most reasonable position, given the evidence available.

Rose,

Just piling on, sorry , but it is beyond dispute that the Earth is warming. The question is how much is caused by man and current technologies. Only a few creationist , the world is only eight thousand years old people (ie Sarah Palin , Maybe George Bush) and the Gods will be done people question the science of measuring Global Warming it is what or who causes it that is marginally open for discussion. When Ice Caps melt currents and the air above tem beome colder weather patterns change coastal temperatures drop because colder water hits them, it does not mean the earth is immediately changed to a sauna. The rise in ocean levels and altered weather patterns along with more and stronger storms and hurricanes are the most likely initial effects, unless we reach a man made tipping point which accelerates and worsens change.

JKHayes

Don't forget to include Obama as a member of congress, as he was for the past four years, though he hardly showed up to do his job and addressed none of these problems.  Except for being one of the Democrats who were against the 2005 bill/request for investigation of Fannie and Freddie, which was requested by Sens Eliz Dole, C Hagel, and John McCain.

He couldn't even vote "present" most of the time, as he wasn't.

And of course the head of Fan/Fred from 1998-2004 was his buddy and economic adviser Franklin Raines.

Its called feeding at the public lunch room, hell these scumbags eat there for free, while selling the rest of us out.....

KSCOLORADO--And of course if you brought this up to EVERYONE who did vote for OBAMA-they would know NOTHING about any of this. THE MOST uninformed voters EVER in ANY election. Whether they were young, old, white, black or Hispanic. Old Republican voters or women. IT DID NOT MATTER. ALL THEY heard his WHOLE campaign was CHANGE---- the last 8 yrs. of the BUSH administration. That's all they heard whenever he opened up that mouth of his. He really did snow allot of his supporters. SORRY, BUT HE DID. Not to mention the leg up he had with the MSM and ALMOST ALL of the News programs. EVERYONE gave him a pass. WITH Everything!! EVEN HIS ASSOCIATIONS. He couldn't even get a security clearance to be part of the FBI or CIA and he is our next CIC. AND as far as Freddie and Fannie are concerned, how many millions of dollars went by the way of Chicago for those projects there and to help those less fortunate?? It did not matter because the place is still a hell hole!

WAKE UP you have been asleep for 8 years. It's over now   WAKE UP

I'm no fan of Bush but who really cares who ran it up, you're about to see another one run it up again.  Just like the mortgage crisis, banks gave too much to people that did not have repay ability.  I want to know how this money is going to be paid back.  This plan is going to put our country even further back in world standings.  Our credibility already sucks.  We are about to go the way of France or some other past world power.  Review it.  See what unemployment rates look like in other places especially ones that are not financially responsible.

REDMIKE- I don't know what your issue is, but in case you have not heard, your DEMS have the majority in the house and have for the past two years. THAT NICE $700 billion bail out that they did a couple of months ago, DID NOT NEED REPUBLICANS to pass it. They had enough votes on there with their own party. They only wanted the REPS on board so when the blame game came around, they would not be the only ones left holding the bag. AND the domino effect here started with FANNIE AND FREDDIE who by the way in JULY Mr.(TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY)FRANK, said there was NOTHING WRONG with the housing market, everything was fine. That was in JULY MIKE. HE is worthless and needs to be kicked off every committee he is on. THIS HAPPENED ON HIS WATCH and he takes NO responsibility and CONSTANTLY blames the administration. Keep in mind HIS LOVER was a big shot over at FREDDIE. Both in cahoots!!!

Pelosi had actually told some of her dem representatives in the house that were up for reelection they didn't have to vote for the bill because she thought they had enough support from Repubs the first time on bill. That's why she got so pissed off when it failed.

I did not know that about Bonnie Fwank's boyfriend being at Freddie or else had glossed over it, Rose.

So let's get this strt. Freddie mac was contributing money to Bonnie fwank (along with others). Bonnie's boyfriend was at Freddie and Bonnie fwank was having sex with his boyfriend. So actually, Bonnie was getting paid to have sex with his boyfriend.

I hate to even say this, but Bonnie Fwank is a male whore!!!! How can he be a prostitute and still serve in congress?

Darrell---too bad I'm married. I would love to meet you for a drink. And we can both talk about that biatch PELOSI and that whore FWANK. HEHEHEHEHE Loved that one-I'm still laughing, but I'm easy!

Yes, it's true. His lover is one of the BIG guys at Freddie. That info came out around SEPT. & OCT. when all this crap hit the fan with the housing market. Only this week, BF was once again spewing his crap negatively about the administration lack of oversight. HE is such a creep and totally not experienced to be doing his job in ANY capacity. AND his good ol' state of MA will only vote him in once again when he is up for reelection. So who is the fool here???? SAME thing with Mr. Dodd-another creep. LIAR more like it.

rose-382980- I don"t know what YOUR issue is, but in case you haven't noticed, this was a bipartisan shafting! I don't have the answers to this economic dilema( besides kicking them ALL out and starting over), but I also feel that it is counterproductive for us as Americans to smuggly sit back on our party platforms and throw blame around. That is not being part of the solution, just part of the problem! Free markets SHOULD work,but I feel that over the last 2 to 3 decades we as a country have become so greedy, that its really shot anyones platform in the foot. It seems that business has been only concerned with profit taking instead of providing jobs(after all, that is what tax cuts are SUPPOSED to do). Also, average Americans have fed off of this greed, as evidenced by so many thinking that their house was a never-ending ATM machine. We lost our way(not everyone, just the majority) and now we have to figure out how to pay the piper somehow.

In the Roosevelt Room after the session, the Treasury secretary, Henry M. Paulson Jr., literally bent down on one knee as he pleaded with Nancy Pelosi, the House Speaker, not to “blow it up” by withdrawing her party’s support for the package over what Ms. Pelosi derided as a Republican betrayal.

“I didn’t know you were Catholic,” Ms. Pelosi said, a wry reference to Mr. Paulson’s kneeling, according to someone who observed the exchange. She went on: “It’s not me blowing this up, it’s the Republicans.”

Mr. Paulson sighed. “I know. I know.”

What is your answer to human cupidity ? I used to think it had something to do with love and romance, what a fool I was...... now I know it's definition is Greed, (yeah, that is a capitol) and who'd a thunk you could lose half of your retirement in the blink of an eye ?

Is it a human character flaw w/o hope of redemption?

All the practical , logical solutions in the world will not work if we do not somehow learn to recognize the
character traits of the people we place in power to make the rules of our lives.

I think my spaghetti is bad too.

By the way, that would be a Socialist Utopia.

We can dream, can't we?

You're damn right socialist utopia.  The only thing socialist about this will be what we are going to have to pay into the system not what we get out.

CommonSense would tell you,ifClinton vetoed the NAFTA treaty like he said he was going to do,we wouldn't have a wholesale loss of jobs....Repeal NAFTA NOW....

What planet are you living on? 70-90% Tax Bracket and taxing Capital Gains as ordinary income. You've got to be out of your F &^%&^$##% MIND.

If that happens, say goodbye to the remaining rich as they move their assets offshore and say goodbye to the remaining Corporations who haven't already left the Country. 

CommonsenseOR what are you smoking?

If that occurs, I can assure you one thing - A Depression like you will never recover from.

That's right, penalize those big bad Corporations and Businesses making too much and creating jobs.

Penalize those bad rich people for making too much. How dare they not share their wealth and success with the dead beats of the world.

Hell why stop at 70-90%, let's just turn everything over to the Government for Redistribution.

You really aren't that dumb are you?

OK who's been smoking crack?

This is the way the tax structure was from post-WW2 to the 1970's. So no, I'm not crazy or dumb. Nor am I alone in this. A lot of top economists and even Warren Buffett agree that taxes must go up on the wealthy. You are probably too young to remember when college was affordable, our roads & bridges were in excellent shape and there was plenty of money for the federal government to send to the states for education, police, fire, etc. College was extremely affordable because the federal government had the revenue. Also, companies put their money back into the business in the form of living wages, affordable health care benefits and defined benefit retirement plans.  Do some research and you will see why we got to this horrible place: GREED at the top. Recall in the 1990-3 time frame Bartlett & Steele came out with books to explain what was happening: "America...Who Really Pays the Taxes?", Who Stole the Dream, etc. Also, "Bankruptcy 1995" came out by another author.

Where were you for the past 27 years anyway? All of this has been out there for decades - this moment was predicted by economists, etc and it has finally come to pass.

Taxing long-term capital gains at more than the current 15% rate is not a bad idea.  Even Reagan taxed long-term capital gains at 20%; the current 15% rate was W's doing.  Whoever has capital gains can afford to pay the tax on these gains; it is not phantom income.  And taxing dividends at ordinary income tax rates is how it was always done before Bush started giving up big tax breaks to the wealthy.  Who has dividends anyway?  Mostly the upper middle class and the wealthy.  Are they going to change their investment habits just because the income tax rate goes up on capital gains and dividends?  I think not.  We need to rescind some of these tax rate giveaways that Bush signed us onto.  How can we hope to begin to pay for all this deficit spending if the income tax rates are not increased one way or another?   

Try abolishing the federal and state income taxes alltogether, oh, and property taxes also, bring in a national sales tax of 6%, mandated in the constitution, and never to be raised without a yes vote of 80% of the people, then get rid of public education, because it just doesn't work, and finally open up the so-called national secrets to the American people......
It would be a start, and if the real truths of our foreign policy entanglements, trade deals affecting Americans, political indescretions done to enrich one's pockets, etc, were to come out, why I think we might even see a few hangings, as they say in the olde west.............

Greg, repealling NAFTA will not bring jobs back.

Jobs have moved to Viet Nam, Mayalsia, Thailand, India, China, and many, many other places that are far removed from NAFTA.

Please study some more economics and note that taxes to the IRS INCREASE when there are tax cuts.   Dropping the top rate from 90 to 70 was the work of JF Kennedy.

The top 1% of income earners pay 40% of the income tax collected...the bottom 50% (majority voting for Obama) pay 3%.  Atlas Shrugged.

College was extremely affordable because the federal government had the revenue.

No, college was affordable because a much smaller percentage of the population attended college.  It is only in the last 20 years that a college education has been deemed the correct path; before, lots of skilled trades and manufacturing jobs that did not require college were available.  That kept demand and the price of a college education low. Now we tell parents and kids a college education is a necessity as there are fewer well-paying jobs that do not require college available, so the demand for a college education is sky high. That is why college is less affordable.

And I am old enough to remember when a college credit hour at a university cost $4.  Yup, a whole semester's tuition was $72.

... our roads & bridges were in excellent shape....

Only because President Eisenhower had pushed throught the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956, and roads were good for the first time as they were all new.  They were not to good until the late 1960s when all of that construction was starting to bear fruit.  Of course, the goal was to make it easier for the military to move.

Are they going to change their investment habits just because the income tax rate goes up on capital gains and dividends?

Of course they are.  Any smart investor is always factoring in the impact of taxes on returns.  Things like Treasury debt instruments and municipal bonds start to look more attractive when marginal tax rates on capital gains and dividends increase, making common stock investments offer lower real returns.   Returns after taxes are what investors chase, and behavior is hugely impacted by a change in tax policy.

Who has dividends anyway?

Anyone who owns a stock that pays dividends.  Stock ownership in this country is not the strict purview of the wealthy.  Many "middle class" people invest in the stock market and receive dividends.  When a single share of ExxonMobil (and XOM offers a direct stock purchase plan than lets you buy into the company and its 2% dividend with a little as $50) costs less than most people's monthly cable/satellite bill, it is not hard to see that lots of people receive dividends.

My in-laws bought stocks for their granddaughter every year for 18 years.  She started collecting her dividends when she started college and used it for her spending money.  She was getting about $150.00 per month in dividends.  Small amount but for a college kid ever dollar helps especially when you don't have to work for the money.  So, to answer your question about who has dividends, lots and lots of people.  By the way the poor kid is now getting less than $50.00.

"The ball is in Congress's court."  I don't find that as words of encouragement.

John you are right the ball is in their court.  The problem is they can't score a 2 pointer or a free throw.

However, what they do need is a manager to show them how it's done and I don't believe there is one in the house or senate and maybe perhaps the white house.

The complexity of our problems dictates a wide angle lens and a hell of a zoom t o really see the entire scope .....If we are on the top of mountain and I am facing north and you are facing south, obviously our views are going to be different, the perversity lies in refusing to recognize the other views as valid aspects of the same problem......and, the process of factoring in all views to create the whole picture would confuse the gentlemen in DC.....They would be so far behind, they would think they are first! And, I think some of them are still looking for their marbles (Harry Reid)..... forget about chess!

The chess board analogy is fabulous.  That is exactly what they need, a comprehensive view.

At the risk of being nasty, or at least non-PC, I'm going to say that a major problem is that most of those in Congress were trained as lawyers.  They were trained to narrow their vision and to win, to go for the kill.  Win at all costs.

What we need is to infuse the whole system with people from a broader spectrum of training and backgrounds.   There is entirely too much uniformity in the approaches they take.

I'm not sure 5% of them could think creatively if you held a torch to their rears. 

In other words term limits across the board.  That is the only way we will get back our country.  Too much special interest money keeping these so-called representatives in office.

did you mean 180 years?

How about Nancy ????  I mean it is she a communist or what ???

Not a communist, you idiot!  She's just weak.  She should apply all the rules the Repbulicans put in place to shut down the democratic party.  Shutting down the republicans with their own rules would be poetic justice.  Then she should lead.

How about Dodd and his Sweet Heart Mortgages with rates far less than you and I could get.

How about Franks and his lying about Fannie and Freddie?

And the list goes on and on!

Not to mention Bill and Billary and their side kick Obama! Three new presidents all in one. Who's going to take the Oath?

I hate to spoil the party, but Obama proposed the business tax credit for hiring and other tax breaks, and he's most certainly a democrat.

you can already make that withdrawal for those types of purchases without penalty

How about reducing Mortgage rates to 3%.

Much like Dodd had swindled for himself.

And he said he didn't know he was getting a sweet heart mortgage.

No, he's only the Chairman of the Banking Finance Committee who oversees the Mortgage Industry.

Do you Liberals see a problem here? Or is this OK in your mind?

These guys are Crooks!

And why is it Obama can purchase prime property well below its market value from a Convicted Felon? That same Convicted Felon who was his Campaign Fund Raiser. The same Trustworthy convicted felon was also Blagojevich's Campaign Fund raiser.

WOW! What a coincidence!

Every person (Democrats and Republicans alike) in this Country should be angry as hell about this.

Reducing the mortgage rates to 3% would bite the hand of finanical institutions that feed our wonderful elected officials. The American Bankers Association would have sissy fit and spank Government with used smelly shoes from Iraq and put them on a strict diet of no more perks.

Yeah Right... Doctor the heroin addict is going into withdrawal. Dr. Obamobster solution give them more heroin.

Here we go Jimmy I told you so Carter the 2nd to the rescue. God Help us.

Now Get out there and threaten to Fire every Senator and Congressmen representing you to make CHANGE happen!

There is merit to yourdream's post.

When the bonus tax refunds went out last year, only the poorest went out and spent the money.  Many middle-income folks used theirs to pay down debt.

The wealthier people, by and large, saved theirs.  Their refunds did nothing to stimulate the economy.

I am one of those senior citizens, that could sure use 10 or 20 dollars.  I had a 401K

when I retired to take care of my husband and did for six years, when if went to place

him in an adult family home I was told the only way I could receive help from Medicaid,

was to spend down to poverty (my 401K) or I could divorce my husband.  The ones

in Congress do not have to worry about, prescription plans, supplemental insurance,

long term care - they will be taken care of.  Yes, I could use the "small amt."  of money

Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore. referred to.

Expediency is the last refuge of tyranny.

not everyone has one either.

that a great idea but way to many pepole on wellfare right ow and they don't wat to get off it it time to make the dead beats gett off there duff and get a job like the rest of us!!!!!!!!!!!!

"If you are sitting at home watching TV and playing Playstation while the rest of us tote your note then do not look for me to send you squat."

You've probably already done it. I would imagine that three quarters of the folks involved with hedge funds and "day traders", let alone the "Y2K" generation graduates of a few years ago that work for the money lenders, etc.......do exactly what you describe. We "bailed them out".

So, if you found $20 in the street you wouldn't pick it up?  $20 a week is $1040 a year, I thats 5 months of groceries for my wife and I.  See the whole board.

minmn,

You're correct, $20 a week is $1040 a year, but the tax "cut"  being talked about is only $500.  The ~$20 refers to people paid twice a month, as many are.  Too bad huh?

Your math is correct Rob, but kreg spoke of $20 a week, that is what I was addressing.

Instead of throwing us crumbs for tax credits, give us the same amount in tax credits as lawmakers got in new raises which averages about $4000 annually or about $333 monthly. It could make difference for some of us.

Everytime they get a raise, we get a tax credit in the same amount and not percentage wise but the total amount of their raise. 

Their healthcare plan is the best available, we pay for theirs, shouldn't they at least try to fix our failing healthcare system.

$20/ week is family  -  $10/ week is single

Tad; In my opinion Congress should do away with all their perks, their pension plan should be S.S. just like most of the peoples (Then we would see S.S. fixed in a hurry) and their health care they should have to buy just as we do, then you would see insurance rates going down.  Insurance lobbyist in D.C. is why the rates are so high.

There are plenty of jobs...Join the military...

and that's great joining the military but we don't pay them enough

But the military gets health care!

Your joking right,last time I checked our Iraqi vets were dying from pst because of a lack of adequate care, prior service vets misdiagnosed and dying of cancers that could have been prevented. And being a vet, I can tell you, our health care system in general is in shambles, be it private, public, veterans, medicare, its just plain bad.
The government is footing the bill for the benefit of a few in the health care industry, and it comes down to our tax dollars.....
Time for common sense and a change, one that makes economic sense and takes care of human beings without killing them or putting them in the poor house......

so pay the so little for their life because you give them health care.

The military gets health care, because they are a cog in the war machine.

Let's not forget, they pay taxes too.

To have a strong country, you need a strong military.

It's still all volunteer, so if you are not too old or too out of shape, AND are willing to give up your life for your country.

JOIN UP

sorry, my sarcasm didn't work.

My apologies to our military people.  It's hard work, very hard work, and they are indeed underpaid, just like teachers and policemen and firemen are underpaid.

Yet, it's not that difficult to get a  job as a "Consultant" for $150K a year.  And they, my friends, do nothing.

But still, I am against any government intervention.

Join the military?!?!  Do you realize that the majority of the soldiers live WELL below the poverty level and the loewr enlisted DO NOT get free military housing, the higher ranking do.  Their families no longer get free health care (if you want to call it that) and the housing sucks.  I am a former soldier who worked a 2nd job to make ends meet.  The medical treatment facilities are so sub standard, it's unreal.  And why would anyone want to send their kid into the military to be a bullet stopper for a president who started this whole mess?  I fight for my country and her beliefs, unfortunately the Commander and Chief who led us into the Middle East inserted his personal needs before those of his country.  Not all government intervention is bad.  When you're swimming cheeck deep in water, it's the Nat'l guard (go weekend warriors!) who come and help out.  Guess what..part of the government.  So big brother is always out there whether you want him there or not, for better or for worse...MAN these sound like wedding vows!

Eviltwin,

Can I PLEASE use your declaration that most military live 'below the poverty line' when I file my taxes this year? That would be great...save me a lot of trouble. And money.

It may have been awhile since you've been in, I don't know.  But if you'd take a drive on base, you'll see E3's driving BMW's, Mercedes, escalades..some e4's driving 30,000 trucks, and E5's with porsches and tons of brand new japanese and italian motorcycles. Most, if not ALL of these toys are paid off. 

Just a quick FYI for those of us not keeping track -I'm going to give a rough idea of what a married e5 with 6 years makes in monthly pay living in SD.

Base Pay-2400

BAH-        1850

BAS (food) 300

And the expenses

SGLI (400k life insurance) 26.00

FSGLI (100k family life insurance) 5.50

Average paycheck after taxes - 2300 every 2 weeks. 

Average paycheck in Iraq every 2 weeks (no taxes, plus combat pay, hardship pay, per diem - close to 3600

Your housing (and then some if you don't mind living in cheaper parts of town), some of your food ( I love to cook good meals so I spend a bit more than this) medical , and all your equipment is provided and/or paid for.  The only money I spend, is what I CHOOSE to spend.  If you live in the barracks, this is even easier. You don't have to worry about rent, you can eat at the chow hall, you only pay for what you WANT to pay for. 

Do military members get into money problems? Yes. Do they have to? No. They either have drinking problems, they lose all their money gambling, blow it all stuffing it in some chick's g-string, or blow it on getting ink , they can't figure out the simple concept that if you're married, and the budget is tight with two, it probably will be 10 x tougher if you create one more. (Especially when you consider that birth control is free through tricare) , or they can't turn down the credit card applications.  All of these issues cause money problems. But they're all avoidable. (Except maybe the kid one, no birth control is 100% effective) 

Yes, it's been "a few years" since I've been in and no, you can't make everyone responsible with their money but there are those that are.  And statistics show (at least when I was in) that they do fall in the poverty/low income bracket.  Most have kids or support family members (I remember my soldiers supporting parents with their pay checks) so once all is said and done...they're broke.  By the way, what color is the sky in bitterville?

Evil, 

I understand you may feel that I'm being bitter, but in reality, I'm being pragmatic. I deal with my junior Marines pay problems all the time, and as the unit's financial advisor (the downside of having a BBA) I'm constantly advising Marines about budgeting and smart financial decisions.  

Keep in mind, with the war, Marines get promoted MUCH faster than they did before. It's not uncommon now to find a Sergeant with less than 4 years time in service, and if you don't pick up Corporal with in 3 years, many Marines think there's something wrong with you  .  So Marines are not only making more money by virtue of MUCH larger paychecks, they're getting promoted faster than any other time in history.  

The reason most military members fall below the poverty line is because BAH, BAS, and special duty pays and COLA's aren't considered (or reported as income.) So yes, even though I make upwards of 60,000 , I only report 25,000 to the IRS.  If my wife didn't work, that would INDEED put me below the poverty line.  

Unfortunately, they no longer teach the soldiers how to deal with money like they did when there was still a women's army corp, etc. (Yeppers, Jesus was a private when I was in!) These "kids" get the 1st real money they have ever had in their pockets and go nuts.  I had soldiers with a wall of stereo but didn't think to buy toothpaste!  They are supposed to be responsible adults when they join but often they are over grown teenagers who have never had any responsibilities taught to them.

evil, 

Kinda what happens when you take a kid who's never had a responsibility in his life, and thrust him square into the throes of middle class society (and the responsibilities included.) They get their first taste of independence and they go nuts . 

Add into that the MASSIVE reenlistment bonuses (mine was near 80k) the combat pay, and then consider that less than 1/3 of all servicmembers e-4 and below have retirement accounts. I know people who would KILL to get into the TSP (a 401k with a front end load of .0015% and allows up to 19,000 per year invested, the only downside is they don't do fund matching, yet...the system is set up, no branch has stepped up to the plate yet)

Actually, I think Jesus was in the DEP program when you were in *LOL* 

How many years did you do ? 

Did 12 and got tired of officers.  Reenlistment bonuses, what are those LOL!?  Never was offered one, but then again, wasn't in a combat MOS.  Here's some interesting info.  My mom and I both went through basic and AIT at Ft Dix, NJ!  Talk about running in the family!  She only did 3 yrs though.

Yeah, they are relatively new in the military. Depending on your field, it's a lump sum payment they give you for reenlisting (some fields cost more to train a person for, require higher scores, etc. or the pay difference on the outside is staggering so they need to compensate to keep them in the field) 

Wow, that is crazy.  So I take it you took the prod 'your mom wears army boots' with pride. Good to hear. 

My opinion of officers is "if you can't beat them, join them." That being said, my package for both WO and full commission will be going in this year.  I'll probably never get above an O-3 , just because I refuse to play the political games necessary. Oddly enough my grandfather never pinned O-4 in the navy for the same reason. 

What's really funny is our family served in 3 "situation" Korean (dad), Viet Nam (mom), Gulf (me) so we all march on Memorial Day in our uniforms and serve as the color guard in our hometown.  All members of the VFW too!  Nice to see I can still fit into mine too! :)  Can't run farther or jump faster but can still stand up and salute when Old Glory rolls by.  Tuaght my 5th grade students how to respectfully fold the flag and take care of her too!

Ahhhhhhhhhhh now you are starting to get it. SAY ANYTHING cuz' it just may get you elected!! Boy, I certainly was giving him at least to May or June for the honeymoon to be over, but he has not even been inaugurated yet. I'm going to pull up my recliner and watch. Probably just smirking the whole time! Told you so.