Ex-aides: Katrina was beginning of end for Bush

I  understand what you're saying Marty, but I also think he needed to hold HIMSELF responsible now and then.  The guy could just never admit he was wrong

Heck if this was the only thing he did wrong then that would be one thing, but god no one has time to write all of the @!$%# he pulled in here; it would take days. If he or anyone that works for him likes it or not he is the worst President we every had. He sucked as president. He has done all he could to destroy the USA.

You dont find it very strange that all the financial markets broke down right before and election? And who did this stand to hurt more the Democrats or the Republicans? You dont believe the senate banking committee had any responsibility to know what was going on? You think the people who borrowed the money they couldnt afford did this because of Bush. You dont realize banks were forced to make loans because of democrats pressure to do so? I sold a house back In January of this year. When closing day arrived a single mom with four kids who couldnt speak English was the buyer of the house. You blame this on Bush? Mercy !

Wildwonderful, this was just Bush and his unteathered greedy financial cronies grabbing the silverware as they dash out the door.  All in the name of deregulation is evil.

Anna

You answered none of the questions

WILDWONDERFUL,

When closing day arrived a single mom with four kids who couldnt speak English was the buyer of the house. You blame this on Bush? Mercy !

You're ASSuming that she's a bad credit risk because she has kids who don't speak English?

Most of us who see clearly blame loans to risky borrowers on poor or nonexistant regulation that allowed banks and brokers to do pretty much whatever they wanted to make a quick buck. Bush and people who think like him are generally proponents of weak or nonexistant government regulation...of business. Regulation of dissenting viewpoints is not a problem, and is in fact desirable - to people who think like Bush.

Anna, the democrats are responsible for the financial mess we are in today. They neede the election to be about "the economy stupid". Charles Schumer started the first raid on a banK, IndyMac, in California. Barney Frank let the housing market go south so he could continue to get contributions from Fannie Mae. The democrats ran the state of Louisiana for over 40 years before Katrina. They spent all the levy money that the fereral government gave them on other projects. They faile the people of their state. Bush has had some failures. Number one is spending too much. But the democrats haven't given him a single bit of assistance in getting the job done right for the country. History will show that partisan politics played a big role in the failures of this administration.

Jack - the democrats are the ones who wanted poor people to get their own homes whether they could afford them or not. Barney Frank defended the programs to the end.

JH-

So the economic meltdown was a Democrat conspiracy to win an election where their candidate could, for once, not only compete with, but inevitably soundly trounce a Republican again. Wow. I'd like to see some substantiation of that incredible claim. It flies in the face of the Republican party's public acknowledgment that Bush had soundly sunk any Republican's chances of showing well in 2008.

Bankers and brokers were not required by anyone, Republican or Democrat, to offer unsustainable adjustable rate mortgages to people who wouldn't be able to make a normal fixed-rate mortgage payment, or 80/20 financing to people who couldn't muster a 20% down payment. They did that of their own accord, to get the business, knowing that they'd be selling the notes to Ocwen or Countrywide before the ink dried anyway. They were able to commit such wizardry because they were unregulated. You can make this a partisan pissing contest if you want, but that won't change the facts.

Unregulated bankers run amok. They always have. Conservatives don't generally think business ought to be regulated. Liberals generally think that businesses need to be regulated to keep things equitable and, well, functioning.

Jack - the republicans tried to sound warning bells as early as 2003. Yes,  I know they had a majority in congress back then, but they were stopped by the lobbyists and democrats. Could you imagine the crying if the republicans would have said no more loans to the less fortunate? They would have been crucified in the press and the dems would have had one more talking point about the bad repubs. Both sides failed on this one. But if there were not as much partisan politics going on for the past eight years a lot more good could have come from all of our elected people.

It was the failure of Bush and not the Democratic Party, hus ad visors or Joe Public.  Blame who you will, but the facts remain relevant.

JH-

History will show that partisan politics played a big role in the failures of this administration.

On this we agree. Had Bush not parted the political seas and said that anyone not on "his side" was a traitor, and ought to "watch what they said and how they said it," he might have retained some of the support that almost everyone offered him in late 2001. Had he signed bills with the intention of respecting them, instead of issuing "signing statements" that made clear his intention to utterly disregard them out of hand, he might have retained some of the respect almost everyone offered him in late 2001. Because of his stubbornly exclusionary partisanship, he disaffected something like 78% of the American people, according to most polls. Yet you'll continue to blame those nasty Democrats for sinking his ship. Incredible.

I think think he reached a point where he could make no come back.  Cheney might have been the bull, but Bush sure had his fingers in b.s.

i hate to tell the people who seem to think this was caused by poor underpriveliged people are you f*(&&^ kidding me!!! THIS WAS brought on by middle class AMERICANS living above their means not the poor and i do understand deregulation but who in their right mind would give a poor person a 400-500k home so please get your facts straight and stop trying to blame the poor for your greedy neighbor not being able to pay their mortgage

It isn't just the middle class. The greed of the rich Banker Class cannot be ignored. They said they took risk out of the investment portfolio. Of course they did; they just moved it to the middle class I.E. THE TAXPAYERS. You'll say the rich pay more in taxes and you'll be right but the rich can still afford a nice lifestyle. Some people in the middle class are looking at  becoming members of the poor class. Our society cannot afford to  shrink the middle class. The economy and the value of the dollar is based on our ability to buy. Some people are not clever enough to say thanks but no thanks; they have always trusted people who know more than them and this time they got taken and the federal government helped the less educated get swindled. "If that smart banker said I can do this, I can". This crisis started w/ Reganomics which never factored in human nature.  Easy money is enticing to anyone. Look at all the people who play lottery.

 I don't understand all you folks defending Bush. His inability to do anything right should be embarrassing to you! Don't you love your country more than your party affiliation?

Im amazed that there are people out there who want to blame this mess on those who are currently being forclosed on. These people are nothing but cannon fodder in a much bigger game that was played by the Money center banks. As noted above, the coincidence of the "meltdown" in the middle of an election was not partisan politics, but re engineering of the financial Sector. The FDIC moved in and made back rrom deals, the brokers became banks, and the biggest got bigger. All of this took place while there was an election going on. TARP was a scam to finance this mess .... To centralize banking power in a small cartel on Wall St.

Mortgages are nothing but a tool to control the money supply. Bankers don't care about what a "house" is worth, they manipulate interest rates and liquidity to raise the value of collateral to increase the money supply - whether its dot com stocks, headge/private Equity funds or housing - it all helps to create money = bank revenue/profits. To suggest that poor slobs who got caught in this game are anything more than deer in the headlights is ridiculous. Those who made these ridiculous moves in monetary policy after 9/11 knew exactly what the end result of these moves were .... it was not a matter of if, but when the ...... hit the fan!

Agreed, there is no way he was a C student. I am a 62 year old woman with a high school diployma and have better sense. I am very thankful we didnt elect another poor student riding around on his famileys coatails. I have no idea what will change in our near future but at least we know that the leader we have is not stupid, the leader we have will listen to those who dont share his opinion. History will see GWB just as we see him, theres no wiggle room. I dont really think it was his fault, he really thought he was going to clear brush (on his prentend ranch) and play golf. If you remember the look on his face when he heard the second plane flew into the trade center, well there you go.  As a parent could you sit for seven minutes after hearing your child had been run over, just think about it.   No ammount of time will clear him of his inactions.

Again who sat there for years and ignored the World Trade Center ?

Wildwonderful- No I dont have a messiah complex, I am surley not as stupid as a lot of republicans who viewed GWB as thier messiah, believed everything his minons were puting out. I know who PE Obama is, he is a Chicago politician, I am not afraid of that , I am more afraid of stupid, we have have stupid for 8 long years. I for one am willing to try smart. Obama has made two promises that he must keep, if he doesnt then we dump him, 1. Accountability  2. Tranparency.    Thats all, if the people know whats going on then we know what we have. I have seen people that act like PE Obama is the choosen one,  dont accuse me of that. I live in reality, do you.

What your going to see is Marxism ?

DarinD and marty holloman...

You two bring up being a 'C' student...

How would you know what Obama's grades are, considering he has had his school records sealed?

Now, take a look at your statements with the spelling and grammar errors. Care to enlighten the people in this forum as to what your grades are/were while going through school? It's real easy to criticize others for something while making a fool of yourself at the same time with that same something.

Bush is done. Stick a fork in him. At the same time, pull a few of the democratic knives out of his back. You might need them just in case Obama doesn't perform to your expectations.

So, be happy. Your wishes are about to come true with Obama stepping into office. You hope anyway...

You cannot deny that this country just elected someone with very little experience and a spotty record at best. This may be a good thing for this country or, it may be a total disaster.

As with Bush, no one knows for sure until it happens. One thing is for sure though...

Talk is cheap.

Just consider this no Democrat in recent history has handled world crisis well. 

Johnson went out in disgrace

Carter went out in disgrace

Clinton went out in disgrace

oldcavscout- sure I am proud to say I have a high school education, put two children through college withour help from anyone. My children are my legacy, no I dont spell well, no I am not an educated woman, but you dont tell me I am stupid as GWB, I called his stupidity over and over, wondering who was pulling his chains and what they were getting for it.  And just like GWB ( who I voted for in 2000) we will see what happens with our new leaders. I am looking for anyone who will help the working class and the working poor, I would like to see our young get educations, its not easy for the poor, motivation is hard to come by, I loved and cared for my children and made them want it.

marty

You sound like a fine lady but please dont look to the government for the answers. They are the problem. Most of our poor are poor because of their bad decisions. I grew up very poor but worked hard and paid for my own education. I never asked for a bailout of any kind. Never expected one

At some point George W. might start to care and regret some of his choices. Cheney will ever care, just recall his famous quote "so?"(what).

Those unfettered by a moral compass are in history books so we remember their misdeeds.

Here we go with that tired song! Nobody expects the government to do everything except be responsible.  Since the article is talking about Katrina, let's take a look at Bush and his incompetence. How long was it before he got involved with aide? The federal government called our citizens refuges and stood by while some were clinging to life. But we can send a plane of relief supplies such as food, and medicine to another country in less than 24 hours. Okay let's fast forward to Gustav, and the reaction of the Bush administration, it was like night and day, wrong meets right!

But you continue to sing the prasies of Bush with his pathetic approval ratings.  Do you really wonder why he got a shoe thrown at him in the country that he illegally invaded, and  cost our citizens the lives of over 4 thousand.

DarinD - the federal government is not the first line of defense in an emergency. The local government should be able to handle a crisis. If they can not then they need to let the feds know that they need assistance. The Katrina disaster was a total disaster. The local government was a total disaster. The federal government wasn't much better at their first response but they did respond when asked. Look at the local incompetence first.

Wildwonderful. I love your sense of either selective history or lack of historical knowledge. 'No democrat has ever handled a crisis well'. Have you ever heard of FDR? If you're going to defend Bush, and it's your right, at least check your facts. Other than that the article itself doesn't surprse me at all. ............'You're doing a heckuva job Brownie'.

You said it well and I agree.

He is even a worse disaster than  Richard Nixon or Lyndon Johnson.

I am from Florida. When there is fear of a hurricane and maybe you could be in the path, you prepare. Like have water and food for at least 3-4 days. OR MAYBE GET OUT OF THE WAY. That mayor of LA is incompetent. PERIOD. SO was the governor at the time. IF THEY KNEW they were going to use the dome to shield people from the storm, how come they weren't better prepared with say like TOILETS??? Also, did any of you see all those school buses under water?? They certainly could have used them to evacuate people, but they chose not to. SOOOO many things went wrong before and during that storm, YOU DON'T BLAME the Federal Gov. WE DON'T do that here in Florida. The problem with LA was that no one there LISTENED to the news reports. They flat out did not care or thought that the threat was bogus. AND THEY PROCEEDED to reelect Nagel. All he did was blame BUSH. Talk about pointing fingers. A BLACK REPORTER after the storm blamed the officials of LA---- not the Bush administration. And one last point-- even though there is crisis, do you loot??????????? NO YOU DON'T!!! Those people were out of control-animals if you will, that many police resigned after that. It was simply too much for them to handle.

Granted, I'm not from LA, but I do so happen to remember the hurricane warnings, the governor issuing evacuation notices , and the CITIZENS refusing to evacuate 'we go through this every year , so we're not leaving.' Seems like those are the people who should be held accountable.  Granted, the governor delayed in requesting federal aid, but I think that was more based off that same frame of mind 'we go through this every year.'

Of course, Katrina wouldn't have been 1/2 the disaster if it wasn't for the levys failing. And in their defense, no one (incl the Army Corps of Engineers) could've forseen the levys failing. 

wildwonderful

why is it that you g WALKER BUSH supporters claim that OBAMA is the MESSIAH while we call him PE OBAMA......is that you have a complex that poor g WALKER BUSH couldnt fill like being smart, able to think, able to admit when he's wrongm, able to ask others for help......GET A GRIP LADY WE DONT THINK OF HIM AS A MESSIAH JUST A COMPETENT MAN

Voting for a President based on his transcript or his CV doesn't make sense. This article suggested that Cheney was somehow the shining light in the administration for the last 8 years. Cheney owed alot of people when he took the job, and the decisions made by the administration show exactly that. We need to stop looking for Presidents in Boardrooms of Corporations and Ivy league Alumni Magazines. Maybe these guys can run a corporation, but frankly, I don't think that running a government has much to do with running a corporation. There is accountability in that office to the people, not just to a board. Decisoins are not just based on what make the shares rise, but whats good for the "people". This administration lost the respect of the people years ago - precisely because they ran the country like a coporation. Its time that we asked politicians to rule "for" the people again .... that should start with understanding the "people", not just other CEOs ...

My mind was made up as soon as he took office. I just never trusted him and clearly there was good reason for my feelings. 

I would not be surprised if history reveals that he knew something was coming before 9/11 but decided it was in his political best interest to let it happen. I am NOT saying he helped plan it or anything, just that I believe its POSSIBLE he decided to ignore the warnings and let the chips fall where they may.   

Can somebody tell me how Bush started that hurricane Katrina? New Orleans was built below sea level and they were aware of the problems the levies could pose but they ignored it. Now come on that Mayor of New Orleans is a useless piece of human waste.  I have friends who were in the guard and they were told directly by him to not clean up areas because he wanted more government money.  The best thing would have been to have one big flush and extract that parasite from us.

wildwonderful...no he didn't start the hurricane...what he did was sit on his butt and not react to what was happening to these people...a lot of people died because help didn't get there fast enough.  Our Government failed the people of New Orleans.

You dont understand the process. It was not the federal governments job to have an emergency plan for New Orleans. It was New Orleans responsibility. Did you see all the school buses that were empty while Nagin sat on his butt? Again you fail to understand Nagin wanted disaster. When Oklahoma City had the bombing we didnt cry to the federal government we went into action. What part of corruption in Louisiana do you not understand?

Those empty school buses were privately owned, the owner had a FEDERAL contract thru FEMA to move people to the train station, the company that owned the school buses evacuated their drivers with the keys to the buses 2 days before Katrina hit. The last train left New Orleans before the storm hit. Most everyone that died in Katrina was either old(over 60) or  a child. These people didn't own cars, they didn't need them. When the Federal Building in Oklahoma City was bombed affecting hundreds of people, first responders were there in minutes, when outside people saw the seriousness of Katrina which affected tens of thousands and tried to help, they were prevented from helping by FEMA. How you can compare Oklahoma City to Katrina is beyond me. Eighty percent of New Orleans was flooded, an area that housed over 300,000 people, most of these people evacuated under their own power before the storm, the rest had no way to evacuate or they minimized the danger and didn't evacuate. They attempted to go to the shelters of last resort, they attempted to go to the evacuation points that they were instructed to go to in order to board transportation out of town that didn't show up for days, or they were trapped by the water that came up very suddenly and the water hung around for weeks. Nagin's not my favorite guy, but he had no idea that the buses weren't available to move people. While old folks were drowning in their attics in New Orleans, Brownie was in Baton Rouge complaining that he couldn't get a decent table in a restaurant and a lot of FEMA employees were sitting around waiting to be told what to do. There is plenty of blame to go around, but like Truman said 'the buck stops here" and that is on President Bushs' head and I hope that the nightmares that visit him drive him so far into a bottle that someday I will see him laying in a puddle of his own puke in a gutter in the worst skid row in this country, wherever that is.

Yeah, WILDWONDERFUL, Nagin was a disaster, but saying he wanted disaster is a bit much. Katrina once again exposed Bush's lack of acumen and personal empathy. There was clearly a local responsibility, but clearly a national one as well. Picking a failed horse lawyer as head of FEMA? Then saying he was doing a "heckuva job"? Contrast that with the Clinton response in the 90's with Witt to the midwest floods (yes, an Arkansas crony, but one with practical emergency management experience). As a fair minded person, I have a question to ask of you. I'm a democrat that voted for Reagan because I thought Carter to be a disaster. You've seen Bush. You see his own people (in this article, and there are others) talking about what a total putz he was. How can you still be drinking the kool-aid?

stageleft,

These guys just didn't get it, natural disasters weren't part of the plan, Rove forgot to include that page....but he didn't forget the photo opp.

Mudflap

As has been stated. The STATE and LOCAL authorities are responsible for evacuations. Not the federal govt. New Orleans was a disaster waiting to happen. It's situated below sea level and there has been concern about levees for decades.

I don't know how many of you live along the gulf coast, but you can't just send in 10,000 national guard troops and supplies to every state and every city that's being threatened every time a huricane enters the gulf. State and local authorities have to take care of some things.

"Gee Brownie, you're doing a heckava job!"

LOL - that showed me just how horribly out of touch Bush the Ignoramus was!  Yeah, a "heckava job" that was...

http://www.snopes.com/katrina/photos/buses.asp

Not sure where the contract with FEma talk comes from, nbctjon. Snopes is usually pretty accurate on their reports. Here's picture of dozens of school buses that Nagin would have had authority to use to evacuate people with. Snopes article discusses some problems with using them, but point is, they were NOT federally owned buses and says NOTHING of some federal contract.

My mind was made up about Bush, too, before Katrina.  How he responded to Katrina sealed it.

GWB is not to blame for Katrina but it undid him because he came across as uncaring and out of touch during a natural crisis. There were no bad guys to pursue so people saw him for the dumbass that he is. 

And what moron sat for years after the attack on the World Trade Center?  He never went there to see what the issue was. 9/11 was a product of Clinton plain and simple.

So what is your suggestion? If you not defending Clinton then what are you doing

So, greenpagan, since apparently you feel everything that happened on Bush's watch is on him, I'm assuming you feel that anything that happens on Obama's watch is his responsibilty also. Hopefully you're not planning on making any excuses for him down the road.

Clinton's Administration WAS keeping tabs on Osama bin Ladin, although admitidly they should have offed him when they had a chance.  His administrators did warn the Bushies when they took over the White House to "keep an eye" on bin Ladin.  They were brushed off as though they couldn't have known what they were talking about.  The Bushies were very dismissive of the Clintonites.

Hey BJs-not to mention that the lazy spoiled brat wouldn't even leave Crawford after he was briefed on Al Q's plan to attack using US civilian planes. Reportedly, his answer was "you've covered your a**". Funny how quickly he returned to DC when the religious wing-nuts got his ear with the whole Terry Schiavo thing. Using the logic I see repeated here, there was an attack on American soil dring the Clinton presidency, then none after that (8 years). That doesn't make him an international terror genius,but fact is fact. 9/11 happened on Bush's watch, and Bush didn't care enough about the obvious, blatant warnings enough to at least make a better effort to prevent it. 

hey, bjs65, what else did you guys discuss in the meetings when clinton was warning bush about bin laden? Bin laden was a well known terrorist. Naturally a president would keep an eye on him. He was in afghanistan at the time and the terrorists of 9-11 were training in US under Clinton's watch. Did Clinton tell Bush to "keep an eye" on them also?

I have one more question for the "9/11 is Clinton's fault" camp. What makes you think that killing Bin Laden (when Clinton had the chance) would have stopped a terrorist organization that is run in independant cells?

x- If Clinton couldn't identify the "independent cells" after 8 years in office, and several attacks on US soil, how was Bush supposed to know after 9 months? Shouldn't the Clinton administration have known that they allowed terrorists to enter our country on student visas (during Clinton's term) and learn how to fly planes at American colleges?

darrell, it was widely reported.  Look it up.

Why "blame" Bush for 9/11 or Katrina - it wasn't his failure to prevent the problem that was important. His legacy will be for what he did after each: The Patriot Act, the Bush Doctrine, Invasion of Iraq, FEMA appointees and failures, etc.

And if we are going to blame Clinton why not Bush Sr and Reagan - or Carter? JFK??

Amen when we had the attack on Oklahoma City we didnt call Clinton we took action right then

New Orleans people wanted to live on the taxpayer for ever and some still are give me a brake Ike hit in TX we got off our ass and took care of each other. Katrina was bad but it's people want the taxpayer to support them for ever bull and I mean bull I can see a few month but years bull @!$%#. The public tit should have stopped long ago.

Amen again Anniek

With all due for the attack in Oklahoma City, the damage was limited to the complex located at 200 N.W. 5th Street.  This included the Murrah Federal Building, destroying a third of the building and causing severe damage to several other buildings located nearby and 168 people were killed and over 800 others were injured.  The city itself was not destroyed.  The infrastructure of the city was still in tact, the Fire and Police Departments were still operational, roadways into and out of the city were functional, hospitals were fully staffed and the support systems (water, electricity, food etc) were not damaged.  Katrina on the other hand  caused severe destruction along the Gulf coast from central Florida to Texas.  In Mississippi alone bridges, barges, boats, piers, houses and cars were washed inland and all 82 counties in Mississippi were declared disaster areas. Nearly every levee in metro New Orleans was breached and eventually 80% of the city and large tracts of neighboring  parishes were flooded.  The infrastructure along the coastline was completely destroyed.  At least 1,836 people lost their lives. 

My point is the size and scope of the damage caused by Katrina was beyond the capability of any one county, parish, state or city government.  The response required a coordinated response from all the local, state and federal governments and their collective failure to respond quickly and appropriately was evident from the beginning.  There are may people to blame but Bush was the President and as such he was responsible for coordinating the cross governmental response.  So what was Bush's immediate response?  He was on vacation, riding his bike for two hours the day before the hurricane landed. On the day Katrina landed, Bush attended a birthday party for Arizona Sen. John McCain. He then went to San Diego to play guitar with a country singer and end his vacation early -- but not until the next day, because he had tickets to a San Diego Padres game. 

So in my humble opinion he did break the public trust, he did fail the people of the Gulf Coast, he did lose all credibility in the first hours and days of Katrina.  The loss was so great that matter what he did after that he could not and did not recover from his immediate response to Katrina.

REENIE--THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!! Just recently N.O. had another hurricane in it's area. The evacuation was handled a lot differently this time around. Could it be that the Gov. now in charge was at least a competent individual?? Sure is. And apparently NAGIN learned something from the last storm that hit his city. THE SAME AID was at their finger tips this time around as was last time. YOU DON"T BLAME THE FEDERAL GOV. the day after a storm hits. Most of those people who stayed behind didn't even have water for one day, let alone any food supplies. When Hurricane WILMA came our way, geeeeeeeezzz, I had supplies for ten days. WE lost our electric for four days, but we were prepared. AND OF COURSE we did not loot, there was no lawlessness here.

Stupid comment!!

Russ so are you allowed blow jobs where you work?

As this tread is about GWB, why are you so worried about the personel life of Bill and Hillary Clinton.  I would have divorced him but again personel.  Why dont you tell us all the wonderful things GWB has done for our country. Hey he has helped out in Africa with Aids, actually I think thats about it.  As you are already wishing failure on the new administration let me tell you, You may not be half the American you think you are, wildwonderful you may just be a partisan piece of crap. You should be thinking about how we can all be just plain Americans with the fight in our guts to make things better for our country, make things better for the working class and for the working poor.

I still say the people of New Orleans knew this could happen for years and years yet had no plan. Then people there were by and large very ignorant so therefore very difficult to manage. Yes Nagin did court disaster. My friends that were in the guard that went down there were prevented by Nagin from doing cleanup work because he wanted things to look bad in order to get more money. The police were stealing cars from car dealerships. New Orleans is know for its corruption how in the world do you think you would have an orderly reponse with the scum they have for leadership?

The government was not put in place to take care of us from birth to grave, As for New Orleans they know the storm was coming and they where told to get out but decided to stay so that is on them. Second Insurance is the answer to this I can see the fed helping out for a few months now it has been years for these people and yes it is local state then feds. Why do people think the government should re-build ????????? If my house burns and I lose it if I don't have ins guess what well. If you don't buy ins to include flood and you live in a place that will flood New Orleans below water leave then duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh make sure you have flood ins. I live in TX when Ike did damage to my house guess what we had ins and they paid the taxpayer don't owe me a house. My ins does. Get real

The government did nothing for me nor should they it was my house and I paid the ins so I have a house. They did not bring me food or ice I went and got it come on the government is not there to take care of your needs it there to take care of the country

Hey he has helped out in Africa with Aids, actually I think that's about it.

Marty, I wouldn't even give him that. The current adminsitration's policy is that if any group teaches any thing other than abstinence they withdraw funding from said group. It doesn't work here in the states, in a country that has a massive HIV infection rate.....

x- do you have a source for that? I've never heard that the relief workers are required to teach abstinence.

J-Dog - I thought it was Lowinsky?

And your telling me Barney Frank is a financial whiz? Telling everyone that Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were in fine shape.

wildwonderful- I agree there are many dems that need to be replaced as well as some more republicans, I think all the crooks should be sent home, we could swap names of our inept representatives all day long. I dont understand how anyone can be so partisan as to continue electing over and over those who will not put the people first. I live in S.C. , the real people in this state has no reprsentation, only the rich, only the haves. Today our Govenor is telling his constituents that if you are on unemployment that he is not going to get those checks to you, not enough money. thats for real.

Wildwondeful,

I see that you still have not gotten over Nov 4t 2008, listen my friend the GOP got kicked out office in a big way. The only people that I ever see referring to President elect Obama as the Messiah are the bitter hardcore conservatives. In fact you guys were prolfic at calling him names this past campaign season

elitist, terrorists, socialist, communist, naive, and inexperienced. But you forgot one name, Mr. President, so get use to it my friend!

This conversation was about his incompetence during the Katrina crisis, so stay on track azz clown

Again your missing the point. Katrina was not his responsibility.

Disaster relief is of course his responsibility.  The man has no heart

I  agree 

LOL , as the said on the Daily Show.

George Bush hates wet people.

Lets see are gas prices the lowest in years who do we blame

marty holloman - you practically said it all. The sad part is on January 21 when he leaves the White House, the problem stays. We would be saddled with the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. How about those over 4,000 soldiers who died, their families, those at the veteran hospital suffering, those soldiers still waiting for their chance to get medical and psychological attention, the 16,000 AWOL and living in foreign countries like Canada, about the $10 billion monthly bills to sustain the wars that we could not just get out, the thousands of Iraqis who died, the Iraqi familys displaced, the country of Iraq destroyed. What kind of a human heart would be left standing and say, "well we got Saddam". $10 billion a month that our American people are paying for when these people do not have a roof over their heads, no food for their children. This is a total catastrophe. This calls for total american unity, stop the wars that makes foreign countries hate us. How could this one man buy another million dollar property to retire in a decent neighborhood of Texas while millions of those he lead are suffering. I would not be surprised if he live a happy and contented life in his retirement.

Wild,

I would suspect an 7% unemployment rate, and 6.5 billion fewer miles driven this year over last as a much larger reason.  Same supply + less demand = lower prices. 

Spike your so right. Democrats listen to the words of John F Kennedy Ask not what your country can do for you ask what you can do for your country

LA is a welfare state; they depend on the gov for everything. The Dems were in control and they failed with gusto! So they have to blame someone.

Right on Salmon

Louisiana is the most corrupt state in the union followed by illinois where by the way Hussein is from. Please tell me how you rehab cockroaches?

Wildwonderful:

Would you please have the respect to use the President Elect's first name? It is Barack. If you don't want to call him by his first name, using his last name is appropriate. It is Obama.

If you don't like either of those, might I suggest you use President Elect? It will help you get used to the idea of calling him PRESIDENT after 1/20/09.

D.G.  How about Barack the Magic Negro? Sounds great to me?

They say most follow by example.  Well, if the congressman/senator that came up with that little jingle is the example you are following, just know his a** is in some deep hot water right now for those very words.

Agreed, Southern Bell.

And you dont think we should impeach Pelosi,Frank and Dodd

How many people here have called their Senator or Representative?

wildwonderful- I e-mail my representatives and call them,  even with my bad spelling and bad grammer I think they understand my concerns. As I have the worst representatives in office, Senators lindsey Graham and Jim Demint from S.C. I have to call them often. i also suggest everyone do the same.

marty

Bless you that you call them

Again people need to look in the mirror quit looking to the government

The Katrina catastrophe was a f**kup on many levels. 

First Wildwonderful, the government should be available when infrastructure is taken down by any natural disaster.  Most of the time this type of devastation is much more than a community or individual can recover from without assistance.  That is one thing I do not dispute my tax dollars going to cover.  One hurricane can do billions of dollars worth of damage, and that is a time when our government needs to be available for its people. 

Secondly, to play devil's advocate here, some of the lives lost and rescue expenses was due to personal poor judgement of people who just chose to stay or thought they had just as good a chance if they stayed despite a 3 day advance warning that if NOLA took a direct hit which was possible that there would be lots of internal damage and flooding expected. People must be held accountable for their decisions.  Even if they didn't have transportation out, I can run 2 miles and do 3 days a week.  Now someone with elderly in their company or young children, it may take them awhile to get out of the city, but not as long as some spent in attic spaces and on top of their roof.   Personal accountability played as much a part of this as the government not helping timely enough.

Thirdly, our government is set up to operate in different stages on different levels.  The local governments should have moved quicker to utilize the city transit system including the 250 school buses that could have been used to take people to safety and also salvaging the buses from the storm damage as well. 

Lastly, the Governor of LA acted like she was "brand new" when it came to handling this.  It was as if she called in FEMA and then just washed her hands of the situation.  Guess as long as the governor's mansion wasn't under water the other people's dilemma wasn't of mass importance to her.  She had no reasons to offer as to why things fell apart the way they did other than she called FEMA and it was all under their watch. 

I'm not a fan of Bush by no means and I think there is more than enough  dirty hands from the top to the bottom of the governmental chain to spread the blame throughout.  I do think however, his mistake was "Brownie your doing a wonderful job" when people were still stranded everywhere, particularly the super dome.  It is basically the same arrogance that got his ass in front of a sign "mission accomplished" which may have been innocent since he claims the sign was hanging before he got there.  If I recall correctly though the speech he gave on that warship coincided somewhat with the sign that things were under control.  4000 dead troops later it is still not accomplished. 

These are the type of things that make him look like a blooming idiot that blooms year round.

Southern Bell,

Learn the difference between your, and you're.

Southern Bell

Who cares about your and your're I think your a cutie

Spike -

Thank you so much for YOU'RE pointing out a simple typo, I quess that somehow made you feel like "Big Cheese" for doing society such a service.  I didn't in my haste take the time to do a spell check before I posted my comment, and that particular one would have not been caught. But I'm sure Newsvine is absolutely beside themselves just knowing you are roaming each and every site looking for typos. Way to look out, althought I'm sure there are better ways to utilize YOU'RE time.

WildWonderful,

Thank you for the compliment, I don't guess I do to bad for 42. ;)

And Richard  your a scholar?

High school valedictorian, graduate with honors from an ivy league university, advanced doctorate degree -- yes, I DO consider myself a scholar!

And by the way, it's "you're."

Give it to him Richard.  I am behind you all of the way. 

Richard

Are you on the government hand out program ? Just curious

And Al Gore was qualified?  Mr I invented the Internet.  Global Warming now hasn't that been a sham?

Bush's experience wasn't what made him unqualified......it's his complete inability to be a leader. He has never expressed a vision and has little integrity. It's pretty difficult to lead when you have no idea where you want to go.

And please, please stop with the rediculous koolaid references.......easily the stupidest and most overused political phrase in the history of political phrases. Do you call anyone who doesn't agree with you a koolaid drinker? Truly sad.......

Well Greenpagan

Apparently being a sworn in Senator from Jan. of 2005 to Nov. of 2008 only constitutes 6 months.......

If you honestley think Ali Bobo couldnt have blown something up on our shores over the last 8 years you are the kool aid drinker. We are no safer than we were before 9/11. The truth is if a ali bobo is willing to die to kill us,  they will be able to kill some of us.

Hey gents he took the fight to the enemy. everyone believed the intelligence about Iraq and he acted. Yes I was pissed that WMD wasnt there. However he did the deed and we are obligated to finish it and not run out because the going gets tough. The previuos President didnt have the balls to take on the hard tasks of engaging our enemies abroad when we were attacked - Somolia - Osama Bin Laden - USS Cole. And we havent had an attack on our soil thanks to the successful war we are waging against the terrorists abroad. This war has been very successful and light on causalties. If we dont blow it, Iraq could turn out to be very successful and be a good ally in the region.

I know it's bad form to point out grammatical errors and misspellings but this run-on rant is in desperate need of at least some semblance of punctuation :)

gonetosoon

Yes you make some fine points while failing some of the real issue. First the attack was a total surprise. New Orleans knew for years this could and probably would happen yet they kept their head in the sand.  The systems stayed in tack because the city had prepared systems to withstand some forms of disaster. The bombing took place just a short distance away from the emergency systems they could have easily failed if they had not been designed well. Nagin and Governor sat on their asses. They knew the hurricane was coming yet did nothing basically. Again they had no plan in place but to blame Bush.

Your right Jarrod. I considered the punctuation but didn't for effect. Glad you like it lol

I agree the attack in Oklahoma was a total surprise and the response was properly executed.  But that was not my point.  My point was a proper response to Katrina was not executed. 

There was no sense of urgency from Bush and in my world the President was responsible for establishing that sense urgency. 

Also, everyone tends to focus on New Orleans; however, they were only one city among many that were impacted.  The destruction in New Orleans was predictable and the decades long compliancy in planning for a direct hit was a failure of the city, the parish, the state, and the federal governments over the tenure of at least 5 Presidents.

Once the hurricane hit land no one could prevent the devastation it brought.  The best we could do was to implement an appropriate response to mitigate the suffering of the people.  However, the lack of a fully coordinated and direct federal response to the aftermath of Katrina hurricane was Bush’s fault.  He was absent in this regard.   It wasn’t until two days after the hurricane made landfall that Bush even returned to Washington.  Contrast the responses of other Presidents that were faced with similar events. 

President: Nixon
Danger: Category-5 Hurricane Camille (August, 1969)
Area: About the same area as that affected by Katrina

Response: Nixon was in Washington.  He prepared the National Guard in advance, ordering rescue ships from Tampa, FL and Houston, TX to stand waiting along with over a thousand regular military, 24 helicopters to assist the Coast Guard and National Guard out as soon as the hurricane passed.

President: Bush 41
Danger: Category-5 Hurricane Andrew (August, 1992)
Area: Florida

Response: In the middle of a re-election campaign, Bush ceased campaigning the day before the hurricane, went to Washington, and assembled one of the largest military forces ever mustered on U.S. soil. Seven thousand National Guard and 22,000 regular military were sent in with the necessary equipment shortly after the hurricane passed through.

President: Clinton
Danger: Category-3 Hurricane Floyd (September, 1999)
Area: Virginia and Carolinas

Response: Meeting with China's president Jiang in New Zealand, Clinton immediately declared the hurricane-affected areas as federal disasters, allowing the military and National Guard to move in and help. Clinton flew home immediately, one day before the hurricane hit, to help coordinate the rescue.

President: Bush 43
Danger: Category-5 Hurricane Katrina (August, 2005)
Area: Gulf Coast

Response: Bush was on vacation.  On the day Katrina landed, Bush attended a birthday party for Arizona Sen. John McCain. Bush then went to San Diego and ended his vacation two days after the hurricane hit the coast.

That is what I blame him for….HIS RESPONSE or should I say his LACK OF RESPONSE.

Great post, gonetosoon.  I might add that FEMA was politicized before Katrina, and many of the disaster specialists had left out of frustration.  "Brownie" himself was completely unqualified for the postion.  Here's from Wikipedia:

Before joining the DHS/FEMA, Brown was the Judges and Stewards Commissioner for the International Arabian Horse Association, (IAHA), from 1989-2001. After numerous lawsuits were filed against the organization over disciplinary actions^[5], Brown was forced to resign.^[6]

What an absolute piece of garbage this article, and it's writer, was (is). The hurricane was a natural disaster that struck down a group of people who were poor, uneducated, and ill-prepared. The "victims" ( and I use this word grudgingly since many of these A-holes have rebuilt over and over, but won't leave the area) didn't want leadership or kind words from the president. As usual, all they wanted was tax dollars thrown at them. What they really needed was to get off their asses and elect a mayor/governor who can develop jobs so they can pay taxes and upgrade the damned levy. Did they expect Bush to come in, hammer in hand, and start pounding out houses?

The real scoundrel in the hurricane was that particular piece of human excrement, Kanye West. What a little poser, spoiled, narcissistic little jerk off. "George Bush doesn't care about black people"...I wish Mike Myers would've just judo-chopped him in the throat. What the hell does Kanye care about black people? He fills them with hype and fake intelligence and then steals their money by selling them absolutely ignorant, sterile, and meaningless tripe. He needs to take some lessons from a real master like Ice-T.

One last thing, about the lying about WMDs. Listen carefully, stupid, George Bush can't go to Iraq and inspect. He was repeating what trusted officials were told by people on the inside of the Iraqi development team. They lied to Saddam as well, for fear of being executed when Saddam learned of their failure to deliver mass quantities of the weapons. This was all supported by members of the former Clinton administration AND the fact that during Bush Sr. presidency Saddam's son had used WMDs to kill many of the Kurdish people.

Rant all you want.  You are clueless and all I can do is laugh at you.  All of your claims have been proven countless times over to be lies.  You deserved Bush.  And guess what, Bush did lie about WMD. 

Wow Gball

Countless leaders all agreed about WMD so if there is a lie then you have to look at a great many Next the inspections were a joke Fact is Saddam was a bloody butcher and a threat to the world Bush didnt start Katrina The people of New Orleans knew this would happen one day yet had no plan Economy collapse? Who borrowed all the money they should not have? 40% of our people pay no taxes What busines could survive with 40% of their customers not paying? Fact is very few people pay taxes, Around 80% of the taxes are paid for by 20% of the people

Bush lied about the WMD and this is fact.  His lies made others believe.  Nobody stands behind his claims any longer except people like you.  Once the Politicians that supported Bush's claims found out they had been had, they started to admit they were wrong.  Bush never admitted he was ever wrong, he just continues to stand behind his lies. 

GBall - do you really think everyone from Colin Powell to Tony Blair were just "duped" by Bush's lies? Or could it be that they were ALL looking at the same evidence and came to the same conclusion? And then when no WMD's were found and his approval rating dropped, everyone distanced themselves from Bush.

For my part, I would bet that if we had the capability of searching in neighboring countries like Syria, we might just find a few WMD's. After all, it's not like Saddam didn't know we were coming to look for them. Remember the attemps to get them to allow UN Weapons Inspectors in? When they finally gave permission, months later, gee- no WMD's laying around. Who'da thunk?

Didnt the Israelies just blow up a secrete nuclear reactor in Syria?

Sorry pal, the verdict is in on Bush. His Administration has been a joke. Deal with it. You can't be the President for 8 years with an entirely Republican congress for four of those years but blame everything that happened on someone else.

No spin necessary. It's too late.

Not that Bush hasn't done things I disagreed with, but the primary fault lies with the Mayor of NO and Governor of LA.

Nagin did NOT take the threat of Katrina seriously enough, didn't do enough to motivate his constituents to get out while they could, did not issue a mandatory evacuation notice until less than 24 hours before the storm hit, did not have a good plan for evacuating those who could not do so under their own power (elderly, etc.), did not have adequate security, facilities, supplies, etc. in place for those who chose to stay at the Superdome (they might have learned from Hurricane Georges a few years earlier), and the list goes on.

Gov. Blanco failed to activate the National Guard, did not request aid in the form of supplies or personnel; she simply asked for access to government money. As 40% of LA's Nat'l Guard were activated, serving in the war, Gov. Richardson of NM offered assistance from his Guard. They couldn't be utilized until she made a formal request to the Fed. Govt., which didn't happen until the next day.

And yes, FEMA dropped the ball. No question. But to lay everything at Bush's feet? Talk about spin!

As a disgusted former Bush voter (because the Dems couldn't find a better man) I have to say the first 2/3 of your message was very well put. Even I have to admit that there was an immediate squashing of any other terrorist attempts on the mainland. Though, we don't know, 911 might have been there only real "hail mary" and they simply don't have the resources (contacts, access) to do more.

This country and it's people appear to have become nothing more than a bunch of self evolved whiners, @!$%#ers, and victims because those types are given so much exposure in the media. Most are still good people and I don't think anyone could find a kinder or stronger first lady, since Eleanor Roosevelt, than Laura Bush. That said, I doubt she could stand by Bush if he were not the same in some respect.

Its incredible with   all that is going on and all the mistakes that he has made people will say he kept us safe when he has generated much more hate for the AMERICAN PEOPLE i guess its that GOP logic ...kill for no reason, invade a sovereign country, kill civilians, lie to you people, bankrupt the country, and cause great division= SUCCESS

what i want to know is what happened to g WALKER BUSH the one who was supposed to bring the country together all he's done is caused more separation especially between the haves and have nots

Funny that you mention facts but refuse to acknowledge them yourself.

Equally funny is that you call me ignorant but post things like this a few minutes before:

Every time something goes wrong, or a Dem complains about something I am going to scream "CHANGE, CHANGE CHANGE"  in their face 'til my throat bleeds.

The real scoundrel in the hurricane was that particular piece of human excrement, Kanye West. What a little poser, spoiled, narcissistic little jerk off

Obviously, you are definitely the enlightened one ;)

Scumsmit- Why don't you go troll on Fox.......Someone there might actually care about your ranting.