Uproar In Maine Over Obama Assassination Sign

@!$%#ers are everywhere. I have a few in my family, unfortunately. And you better believe I call them out every time.

I really love Maine, but you won't find many minorities up that way.

Lee B,

Not many minorities? Wonder why then do "these people" have a problem with "those people".  Maybe "this one" learned from somewhere else how to commit such a small minded, despicable act regarding "that one".  (pun intended)

A person like this is the epitome of blind racism.  Of course, a person like this would have to hate somebody even if it was based on different hair color!

Wonder why not "Lee"?

Racism has always been alive and well in the North, just covert, until of late.

There's racism everywhere, you just have varying degrees.  I would say that the north overall is really quite good on that scale.  At least the places I've been in New England.

I used to go to maine during the summerss when I was younger.  I remember,  how interesting it was to realize everyone was white.  Still some extremely nice people and beautiful coast and scenery though.  I wouldn't want people to think everyone there is racist, it just wouldn't be even close to true.

Unfortunately, racism comes in many places, in many different guises. 

This is one of the most despicable things I've read lately, and I've read about a lot of despicable things recently.

C.Y.

Just think if you found out that your own brother was a racist.

I did! Will I speak to him again? probably. Just in a different view.

CY, tell the seeder.  I may be wrong, but I think it was a purposeful bait and switch.  As he/she sits back and enjoys the fallout. 

Well, what do you expect...the McCain/Palin and the rest of the GOP have given all racists permission to come out of the caves and have fun once again.

Huckabee and the rest are all over the Media with the prospect of renewing their image. Yeah?...the dye is cast.

It was called the "Osama Obama Shotgun Pool."

Was anyone else thinking, "I bet a honky came up with that name?"

I detest being called that but yea, I think we all figured that's who came up with it.

What in the world is wrong with people? Gees, I just can't believe all the crap. Yea, I know, it's nothing new but it is new being directed at the President elect. Are these really Americans?

Sounds to me like the Oak Hill General Store will be having a going out of business sale.

15 minutes of fame, a lifetime of shame.

Might want to revisit your views on unemployment compensation.

Racism is everywhere. However, I don't think Maine is a predominately racist state. I've lived in NH, NC, SC, AL and OR and from what I've noticed there is less racism when there are less racial minorities to be racist towards.

Racism is not culturally embedded in Maine. Most folks just don't care if a person is black. Obama won both the Democratic caucus and the general election by large margins. He held an average of a 14 point lead througout the campaign and won by 17 points.

Maine Democratic Caucus
Obama 59%
Clinton 40%

Presidential Election
Obama 58%
McCain 41%

Let's not have a few rotten potatoes spoil the sack, eh?

I'm going to be there.

me too

5 Million plus RAY.  See ya'll there.  :)

Heck yeah it'll be bigger than the million man march....ya know why? Because it'll be people of ALL races, not just one group.

Wish I could be there....I have to settle on watching it on television

Sure can smarty Idiot!  Come, join us, go for it!  But I doubt anyone will hear you due all the sounds of elation.  There will probably be some picketeers there, however; you are certainly free to join them, but the PE will not hear you. hahaha! Doubt too very seriously if you can even get close enough for any of us to hear or care, but again, GO FOR IT.

Be prepared to meet the greet the Secret Service. They are nice guys, usually.  Idiot! AGAIN, GO FOR IT and let us know how it works out for ya. 

I could ignore you but you amuse me.  tee hee

freedom of speech? 

The man can say whatever he wants, but his freedom ends when it affects public interest.  You can't spray paint your house in ugly colors without the neighbor hood filing a petition against you and forcing you to change it. 

This is similar. You can't put inciteful signs up in a public place.  People have the right not to be influenced by hatespeak as they drive/walk down the street. 

since you live near by why not start a pool an how long this person will be in business?

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't gambling Illigal in ME?

Where did you go to law school, ohiogal?  The freedom of speech doesn't stop when it influences the public interest.  That's ridiculous.

Regarding house painting, you're generally allowed to paint your house whatever color, as long as you stay within zoning restrictions.  Other restrictions generally arise from a homeowner's association or restrictive covenants on the deed, and since those are private, have nothing to do with freedom of speech.

Inciteful speech isn't allowed, but this doesn't meet the definition of incitement.  It is inconceivable that someone would see this sign and "imminently" engage in violence against Obama. 

Hateful speech, on the other hand, is just as protected as any other speech.  You don't have a right not to hear hate speech.

What this store owner did is stupid, but it may also be criminal.  

Title 17-A: MAINE CRIMINAL CODE Part 2:
SUBSTANTIVE OFFENSES
Chapter 39: UNLAWFUL GAMBLING

2. "Bookmaking" means advancing gambling activity by unlawfully accepting bets from members of the public as a business, rather than in a casual or personal fashion, upon the outcomes of future contingent events.

2. Unlawful gambling is a crime.  [Editor's Note:  A Class D crime is punishable by one to three years in prison.]

I don't think this would stick, but then again, i've seen thinner cases made to jail someone.  I would hope that the people of that town boycott the store, but if they are of like mind there just may not be any justice.  They may be able to stick a Pro

I was not trying to take away the fredom of speech, the only thing I see wrong with the sigh is the gambling aspect of it.

Personaly if it wasn't for the "Let's hope someone wins," coment at the end I would have found this to be funny.

insert_name_here-

You got me there! I didn't go to law school, chose to go to med school. 

But since you obviously went to law school, please tell me how zoning restrictions of housing is different from the zoning restrictions of businesses. 

Also explain to me why promoting violence against the president elect posted on a sign isn't illegal.  Then, I also need to understand why a buisness can't post a naked lady on their bilboard sign? Or put explicit curse words on the front window's of it's store?

but his freedom ends when it affects public interest

I don't need to explain this, you went to law school, so you know this was an obvious reference to a famous oliver wendell holmes quote.

But since you obviously went to law school, please tell me how zoning restrictions of housing is different from the zoning restrictions of businesses.

Well, the restrictions themselves are different...  I don't get what you're getting at here.

Also explain to me why promoting violence against the president elect posted on a sign isn't illegal.

Assuming the sign doesn't violate local sign ordinances, the sign promoting violence isn't illegal because speech promoting violence isn't illegal, at least not per se. 

As has been said here, "incitement to violence" requires knowledge that the speech (the incitement, that is) will cause "imminent lawless action."  That does not exist here.  As the lack of recent lawless action from Mainers against Prez-Elect Obama shows, there was no risk of "imminent lawless action."  Additionally, incitement requires express advocacy of lawbreaking.  Simply saying "I hope Obama gets shot" is not enough; the shopkeeper would have to say "Shoot Obama" in order for this requirement to be met. Since neither the "imminence" or "express advocacy" elements exist, this was just normal speech.

An example of incitement:  There's a riot on the streets of East L.A. by blacks against LAPD cops (similar to 1992) when a mob comes across an off-duty white officer, alone and cornered.  

I would be guilty of incitement if I yelled "Kill the cracker" and, as I requested, the officer was murdered.  I expressly advocated murder in a situation where the murder could have occured imminently.

If I was in the mob and I yelled "Kill the crackers" when there were no white people around, I would not be guilty of incitement.  There was no potential for "imminent lawless action" because it would be impossible to kill a white person "imminently."

If I was in the mob, near the cornered officer, and I yelled "I love when white people die," I would not be guilty of incitement.  I did not expressly advocate murder, so it wouldn't be my fault if members of the mob killed the officer.

Then, I also need to understand why a buisness can't post a naked lady on their bilboard sign? Or put explicit curse words on the front window's of it's store?

That's obscenity and whole 'nother balgame.  If this shopkeeper had written "@!$%#in' kill Obama" we might reach another conclusion here.

I don't need to explain this, you went to law school, so you know this was an obvious reference to a famous oliver wendell holmes quote.

I'm not sure to what quote you're referring.  I can't find any quote by OWH, Jr. regarding "public interest."  I assume you are referring in some way to OWH's decision in Abrams.  OWH's dicta are not law because OWH dissented.  Besides, OWH's suggested "clear and present danger" test from Abrams has been superseded by the "imminent lawless action" test from Brandenburg.

Isn't wagering on a date for the assasination kind of creating an incentive for assisination so that one could win the bet?  Isn't that illegal? 

Isn't wagering on a date for the assasination kind of creating an incentive for assisination so that one could win the bet?  Isn't that illegal?

It's called an assassination market.  The Pentagon tried to create one a few years ago.  Such a market would probably be illegal, but a serious assassination market would make use of anonymizing techniques to make its users secure.

One person does not speak for Maine who voted overwhelmingly for Obama. The store owner left town. I'm sure that through-out the country there are bad apples that don't represent the over all communities. I voted for and support Obama-Biden but wouldn't waste my energy to drive to the store and give him ####.

Susi, I usually enjoy reading your posts because they are rational and well written, but I have to say that I'm disappointed in you generalizing  like that.  Shame on you. 

I see Golden Gate at the beginning of your name.  I was born and raised in the east bay and I grew up with bigotry and racism.  But I would not blame California.  I blame the individuals who act negatively.

debmo...

I'm not trying to defend this guy but seriously you need to study up on the English language... their is a difference between hoping and threatening... and you should check up to see what the laws for wrongful accusation are, for anybody who would like to write a formal statement of accusations

for instance jack jack's post below... he wishes Obama well and hopes that store owner gets shot...

neal-are you nitpicking?  Just maybe if this idiot was made an example of some of the mouth breathers would hesitate.  I do not wish this person death just a healthy dose of reality and justice.  If I were you I would study up on where you might find some balls.

balls?  You must not have read my one and only article

or maybe the next time i'm fighting for my life while getting stabbed and beaten with cinderblocks i'll find some balls

Read all I need to know about you...mincing words about a threat. 

what threat?  How are you SO positive it will hold up in court?  how many democrats have 'hoped' for bushes demise?  how many of those have been charged for terrorism, please i would really like to know what words they used to get them that

The sign in the Oak Hill General Store asked customers to place a $1 bet on the date of Obama's assassination, and said "Let's hope someone wins," the Portland Press Herald reported. It was called the "Osama Obama Shotgun Pool."

People have been charged with less proof than this...Taking a bet on Obama's assassination is advocating for the event.  If any democrats had a sign up taking bets on Bush's assassination then they should have been arrested and tried also.  This is not a partisan thing...this is threatening the life of a father, husband and President-Elect.  Why are you SO positive it wouldn't hold up in court?  It is easier to prove with a written sign than a spoken word.

I'm not trying to defend this guy but seriously you need to study up on the English language... their is a difference between...

Classic! ;-)

Gosh guys. I didnt mean to stir things up like this. Although I didnt make myself clear, I wish that this racist A-Hole would be brought to justice in the court of law..... then shot. Neal, are you Reginald Denny?  Perhaps Dick Cheney can take this store owner hunting.

Well, as long as everyone is held to the same standard on threats, president or not.

Neal, you're completely correct.  Communicating threats has a very clear legal definition, including that the person has knowledge that their statement will cause someone to act as the person suggests.  Hence, yelling "Kill her" to a lynch mob is communicating threats because the mob is likely to actually... kill her.  Saying "I hope Obama is assassinated" does not meet that standard and any competent DA or US Attorney would refuse to press charges.

Further, y'all may be interested in assassination markets.

Well I believe if we where talking about Bush the article would have been also saying that arrest were made.I mean come on ,how many people did his administration throw into Guantanamo for less than this?Just saying this in a phone call?Or chatting about it on the Internet?

"I mean come on ,how many people did his administration throw into Guantanamo for less than this?"

well billbill38 at least 5 bosnians

No reddirthippy, that's bosniacs.  :)

There you go.Point made and more than this.

I agree.

That could be why the store is still closed.

Let's start a pool in when the owner receives a visit from the Secret Service.  $1 a bet.  Who's in?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule

He identifies with Black due...........  and due his pigmentation, actually, what choice does he have and he certainly can't "PASS".  (Old Racist Southern term)

Actually, he is bi-racial.  Not like the my Jewish brothers and sisters, where having a Jewish mother automatically makes you Jewish.  

Info here from a Black woman.  Hope the link clarifies for you. Thanks for asking.  Did not consider it racist at all.  cya!

Elaine, Thank you very much for the link. I found it very interesting. I consider myself a fairly smart person and had never heard of the "one drop rule". You taught me something today and again "Thank You" . You made my day. :)

You're welcomed.  I'm happy you asked and so nicely too.  Good to meet ya.  Hey, I taught someone something.  Wait until I tell my grandkids.  tee hee.  :)  Now you just made my day and "un-made" theirs.  hahahahaha

Good to meet you too. We may have different color skin, I would be proud to call you my "sister". We are all gods children, even though we may not agree.

I could be wrong but I thought that if one of your parents is black then you are considered black, even if you can "pass". That could be something that I read about  life in the south for African Americans, I am not sure where or when I came to that thought.

I always wondered why?

I have one parent that was 1/2 Native American 1/2 "been here so long they don't remember" and one that was of 1/2 Scottish and 1/2 English descent. What in the world would that make me? None of it makes sense to me.

I never really thought it mattered, we are all just people who don't look alike. Really, would any of us really want all of us to look alike, what a boring world! Well, yea, I guess there are and have been lots of folks who are into that racial purity thing, my stupid. Let me rephrase the question. Are their any rational people who would want us all to look alike?

dixie................  Read the link that I left for jack.  That "genetic math coding or de-coding" does or DID not work for Black Americans.  It was (at one time) a racism process.  Might still be to many or some people.  Once it mattered TO US, almost could have been a literal LIFE OR DEATH matter, which is precisely why if your were Black and "passing"; you lived your entire life in fear of being found out.  And is still being "discussed" today in 2008, into 2009.  That should tell you something right there.  Speaks volumes to me.   

Yes, it does speak volumes to me.

That was one confusing article! I think I know where I first "knew about it". Studied the Jim Crow law some 30 years ago in one of my American History classes in college.

Seems to me they have spent an awful lot of time and energy classifying people instead of working on things much more important. I do understand though that at one time it was believed we were different. I mean really different. "We were wrong, everybody should know that by now."

This guy in Maine may almost have true ignorance as an excuse. I think if you do not know people different from you, you really can not know that they really are just the same as you. Not an excuse for the a** just a possible explanation. Oh yea, I meant to acknowledge his right to free speech but this guy went beyond saying what he wanted to to hoping for a felony. (To put it short and simple.)

no that was a dog howling.#2 the pres- is all american ya ya

slam!  Bad economy and offending customers.  Yeah it isnt a wise decision to offend small business customers.  If you want to make a statement like that, do with your friends at least, even though its not being right to begin with.  It is remarkable the number of people who argue for violence against something they dont like.  Words and calm actions are more powerful than wagering/encouraging hate that could result in the loss of someones life, for whatever reason this store owner doesnt like Obama.

Very good business point.  As someone who has owned business in the past, it is my feeling and experience that taking a political side is a VERY BAD idea. 

If it is about staying in business make sure that your customers emotional comfort is considered. 

There are several businesses in our area who have publically taken political stances on their billboards and ads.  What they don't understand that these positions have reduced their customer base by at least 20 people I know who disagree with their position.  Will this business ever know that it lost customers?  Probably not. 

If you can exist as a business by pissing people off good for you, if you can't, stop with the stupid talk.   People are voting with their dollars and their feet, which ever side you are on an issue. 

AMEN!

He called it the "Osama Obama Shotgun Pool."  This guy was telling it as it is all right.  He was trying to say, "I am an ignorant bumpkin."

'The sign in the Oak Hill General Store asked customers to place a $1 bet on the date of Obama's assassination, and said "Let's hope someone wins," 

Asking people to place bets may just be extremely poor taste, but saying "let's hope someone wins" goes way beyond "telling it like it is"

We know there are wackoes the question is should they be encouraged.  Free speech isn't really free.  It is a crime to yell FIRE in a movie theater in some area's.  Profanity is also illegal.  Threats the encourage criminal behavior can be considered accessory before the crime based on things like.  "If you want to kill that guy, I could loan you a gun".   Even knowledge about a crime and not reporting it can be a criminal offense. 

It all depends. 

I'm curious how they figured out which button powers up the computer.

I'm curious how they figured out which button powers up the computer.

The lady at the library probably did it for them.

Don't ask, you just witnessed the ignorance first-hand.

Never will!

If there is one thing we all should know is that nothing lasts forever. Everything and everyone has a life-span that begins and ends, but there are evidently persons out there who are unaware of this. What we are actually seeing is fear. Fear of change!!And it will happen regardless of how many racist comments are made. So get use to it, especially diamond666 and neeneee, and many more who feel the same.

It i........  with the Secret Service.

Yes, outthere and S.Elaine Jones the storeowner in Maine has jepordised his livelihood andmay have put himself in jepordy. I am sure the Secret Service has him high on their list.

Nicely done, greenpagan.  You sound like a lawyer. 

However, the store owner is taking "wagers" on this action to be performed, enticing someone if you will, in order to win a pot of whatever money is collected.  That could be considered a paid assassination. Not to mention, illegal gambling.

Good point. Wouldn't it qualify as a kind of conspiracy? It'd be interesting to hear it argued.

I work for a court, and have seen hundreds of submissions from attorneys, and your post was substantially more rational and well-stated than a large majority of the papers I see from "real" lawyers.