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GREENPAGAN

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libertarian-socialist wino
Articles Posted: 188  Links Seeded: 9007
Member Since: 3/2007  Last Seen: 5/12/2012

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'Pork Chop' Hillary

Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:04 PM EST
politics, barack-obama, gop, democrats, congress, hillary-clinton, social-security, bill-clinton, 2008-election, john-edwards, martin-luther-king, dennis-kucinich, nafta, john-f-kennedy, universal-healthcare
By greenpagan
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Not all that long ago I defended Hillary Clinton from low blows thrown by the official-unofficial water-carrying apparatchiks of the Corporate Mass Media.

Now sadly I have to stand fast and full square against her faction in its ill-considered targeting of Barack Obama, presumably for the sake of somebody's idea (Mark Penn?) of political advantage. Although one would be hard-pressed to call this wave of Hillary's "Surge" against all comers a rip-roaring success.

If the Dems split in '08 and the sick, decrepit, virtually bed-ridden GOP wins the White House (and by unexpected rout retakes the House and Senate in the bargain ) because of it the Clinton name will live in INFAMY. Because it would have been their fault!

Flashback:

It's not like Bill Clinton was so great a President or Hillary such a great sidekick or senator. Or Muse.

A super-salesmen? Yes. A young W.C. Fields (juggling everything including the kitchen sink) closing some crazy barroom deal, putting over some convoluted scheme to the detriment of some poor discombobulated boobs? Yes. With Mother-Lover-Crone Hillary making it all possible by her steadfast loyalty devotion and deep star-crossed affection for her "very bad, very naughty boy".

But--and I've asked this question many times--what of singular note did the Clintons actually accomplish? (And if anyone believes they are something less than dyadic allies they had better think again. Their power is the power of two.)

They blew the Universal Healthcare initiative; signed on with the GOP in the anti-labor NAFTA Treaty facilitating the destruction of America's manufacturing base and fostering a weakened socio-economic atmosphere with dire national security consequences; attacked the Social Security Act's Federal guarantee for Aid to Families with Dependant Children; cause a backlash culminating in the loss of the Congress by the Dems for most of the decade of the 1990s and beyond; the Whitewater Scandal; the Lewinsky Affair and subsequent Impeachment Debacle. As a U.S. Senator Hillary has been nothing more than a competent administrator, propping a disintegrating system and preserving and protecting her own political ambitions.

In this current struggle between the candidates according to the Law of Tooth and Claw, what exactly caused Hillary (her husband and surrogates) to flare up?

Obama referenced King and Kennedy. Big frigging deal. He didn't compare himself to them. Hillary acted as though Obama didn't have a right to even mention them!

Overnight a rift developed between the African-American and Women's wings of the Democratic Party. And leave it to media midgets like Chris Matthews to do everything possible to widen that rift in the endless pursuit for ears and eyeballs.

Is the current impasse merely a preview of what we can expect from another Clinton term? Can we really afford any more such private nightmares of public policy (to borrow a phrase attributed to James Ellroy) ?

Time to do a little factcheck. Refresh your historical memory for clear recall of the Clinton period. Let's not over-romanticize those times. Bill Clinton was 'Huckleberry Finn Gone to Washington' not by Frank Capra but by David Lynch.

There was relative peace and generalized prosperity? Good. Those are things that are a credit to any leader.

But today there are better choices available: Obama, Kucinich, Edwards. They're not saints. But they do carry less baggage.

The 'Third Way' is a Dead End! (Maybe it is that realization what spurred Sid Blumenthal's little sojourn the other night down his own dark lost highway when he got busted for being plastered going 70 in a 30 mph zone.)

It would well behoove citizens to give all candidates a second look, seriously considering what drives certain personalities to crave power in the first place and whether they are indeed worthy of the trust.

====

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  • Public Discussion (24)
jfxgillis

GP;

Call for

HOWARD DEAN

to step up here and do what national party chairs are supposed to when things get bad like this.

  • 3 votes
Reply#1 - Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:03 PM EST
greenpagan

jfxgillis

I emailed Dean--hopefully along with many other persons--at the DNC today, suggesting he intervene. Also contacted the Obama and Hillary campaigns, asking them to please stop it. (And encouraged others all around the Web to do the same.)

Hillary getting booed today at an MLK commemoration possibly brought the point home. (See: HRC Booed as MLK Speech in NYC Gets Lukewarm Reception .)

The ball's in the Clinton's court. They're out of control over there. Waging an aggressive campaign season is one thing. Destroying the party because of personal vanity is another.

====

  • 3 votes
#1.1 - Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:39 PM EST
jfxgillis

GP:

The goddamn stupid local short-sighted pols in the South Carolina Democratic party were the gasoline throwers, not that I'm defending the Clintons throwing flaming barrels back.

I was telling somebody yesterday that this may already be too big for Howard Dean, we need to get the Big Guy himself in here to tamp down these flames.

I speak of Tiger Woods, of course.

  • 4 votes
#1.2 - Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:44 PM EST
Reply
polecolaw

I must be missing part of this. To me it is a nothing becoming a something, and the media is sound-biting it to death. I originally read this as no issue - why did Clinton's remark about Johnson cause all this crap that, as you say and as I have said on other threads, could threaten the party as a whole at a critical time? I think I missed a piece of this somewhere. Fill me in?

  • 2 votes
Reply#2 - Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:35 AM EST
jfxgillis

pole:

Even though I tend to agree with GP, my pro-Hillary TNR seed by Sean Wilentz is also pretty much the best factual rundown of how it reached critical mass.

Basically, it was an offhand remark that could have been though should not have been intepreted in the worst possible light. After it was so interpreted the pissing contest started.

  • 3 votes
#2.1 - Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:49 AM EST
polecolaw

jfx - Thanks - that's pretty much what I thought. I'll check out the seed.

  • 2 votes
#2.2 - Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:00 AM EST
Reply
bluecollarbytes

Clinton advisers come and go, but Clintonian politics as usual remain. I don't believe we've seen anything yet compared to what's to come. The only way to avoid war is for either Obama or Hillary to step down, out of the race. I think Hillary could add to the Clinton legacy if she was to practice a bit of that affirmative action herself. She, being the privileged white woman-wife to a powerful white ex-president, should offer her slot to the equally able but discriminated against African-American. Unless of course this race is to important to "play fair".

  • 1 vote
Reply#3 - Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:10 PM EST
greenpagan

The beginning of the end for Hillary and her stinking failed impeached president husband. (Perhaps soon to be ex-husband. That would be smartest move she could make. Pack him off to Barbara Streisand's Malibu hideaway…)

Caroline Kennedy Scholsberg is supporting Obama. Good. The Clintons are finished as well they should be for their perfidious divisive racialist shenanigans, putting their mindless craving for power above the general welfare.

====

  • 4 votes
Reply#4 - Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:00 PM EST
jfxgillis

GP:

LAUGH!!! Don't get over-excited. It ain't over 'til it's over, man. Don't get too far ahead of yourself.

Caroline K backing Obama is a day-maker, though, I admit that.

  • 5 votes
#4.1 - Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:08 PM EST
polecolaw

I think it adds to the Obama momentum and the momentum looks pretty strong. He has an inspiring quality that seems to be catching on. Edwards showed no quit tonight. I wonder who he is pulling more votes away from. In SC I think he took away from Clinton more than Obama.

  • 4 votes
#4.2 - Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:21 PM EST
jfxgillis

pole:

Actually, I think Keven Drum it was who has numbers suggesting Edwards isn't really isn't taking appreciably more from either.

Let's hope the NYT endorsement is the political equivalent of the Sports Illustrated cover jinx when McCain's turn comes around on Tuesday in Florida.

  • 3 votes
#4.3 - Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:39 PM EST
polecolaw

I couldn't find specific numbers but I found this:

"I think 200 delegates on Feb. 6 is our over-under," Mr. Trippi said. Although he continues to insist that Mr. Edwards has a chance at securing the nomination, Mr. Trippi concedes it is a long shot. More probable: arriving at the convention with enough delegates to tip the scales in favor of either Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama. "Edwards is the primary force keeping Clinton under 50%," Mr. Trippi said. "Worst case? We go to the convention as the peacemaker, kingmaker, whatever you want to call it."

From Drum here.

J - I don't know what Edwards ultimately wants if he plays this role. I am very supportive of campaign finance reform so I am supporting him, plus I think it gives Obama a better chance over Clinton. If he gets to play a role in the convention I hope it is in connection with finance reform. It certainly has the makings of an interesting political season - for a change - even after losing a few of the more colorful candidates.
(Go Giants)

  • 2 votes
#4.4 - Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:07 PM EST
jfxgillis

pole:

I don't know what Edwards ultimately wants if he plays this role.

Um. I explained that to someone the other day. And Edwards explained it last night. He wants to be President of the United States. And he does have a path to the nomination in an open convention:

1920 Republican Convention

  • 3 votes
#4.5 - Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:14 PM EST
polecolaw

I'm really trying to piss you off with the Giants thing. Wiggle wiggle, pause, wiggle?

The old rules in the Democratic process required 2/3 of the delegates for the nomination, but they dropped that a while back. Now I think it is a simple majority, so we certainly could see a brokered convention in either party this year. I just don't see the Democratic National Convention picking Edwards over Obama and Clinton because I don't see how he has the influence over delegates in a runoff. If anyone has an advantage there I would think it is the well entrenched Clinton machine. On the other hand, if no candidates achieve a majority, then he could certainly have an impact by backing one of the other two. What I don't know is whether delegates won by a candidate are bound to vote for whoever that candidate decides in a situation like this. Do you know the answer to this? I will poke around a bit and see if I can find it.

  • 2 votes
#4.6 - Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:43 PM EST
jfxgillis

pole:

I'm not aware of any runoff rule that would require the #3 candidate, presumably Edwards, to drop out until he has had plenty of chances to try to squeeze through the Dark Horse window. I think the runoff rule has to do with a minimum threshold, i.e., candidates with just a handful of delegates get dropped as the balloting proceeds. The dynamic, following the history I linked above and a couple of others I read this weekend, is that the Third One in either slowly accretes or slowly erodes support. If Edwards starts to crumble, he'll probably cut a deal with one of the top two immediately. If he hangs on, he can just .... keep hanging.

Delegates are NOT bound to follow their candidates wishes. After the first ballot, they aren't even bound to follow their pledges even if their candidate remain in the race.

See the funny video of Tom Brady standing and walking normally in the snow today? The Jints got no chance. Two weeks isn't enough to construct the gameplan they'd have to create to have a chance.

  • 2 votes
#4.7 - Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:19 PM EST
polecolaw

But Joe said they will win!

Delegates are NOT bound to follow their candidates wishes.

That makes it even more interesting, especially if Edwards ends up with a substantial number of delegates.

  • 2 votes
#4.8 - Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:12 PM EST
jfxgillis

pole:

Just had Brady's airport press conference in Arizona on live. Forget it. I've been toying all week with my call being Pats to win, Jints to cover but no way now. Old-fashioned Super Bowl blowout.

I'd put Edwards threshold at about 7% (minimum, 10% better) of the delgates to be a factor to be contended with.

I'm telling my Guiliani pals on the Repub side to hope for the same threshold. Maybe less, because they could have a four-way race--5% might be enough.

  • 2 votes
#4.9 - Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:50 PM EST
Reply
greenpagan

I know it's hard for some of us to kick the Clinton Addiction. But it must be done.

It is our great and terrible duty…!

-- Obergruppenführer von Greenpagan

====

  • 4 votes
Reply#5 - Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:53 AM EST
space guy

Is the current impasse merely a preview of what we can expect from another Clinton term? Can we really afford any more such private nightmares of public policy (to borrow a phrase attributed to James Ellroy) ?

What have we on the repub side been trying to tell you people for over a decade. Well late is better than never. Heck I might even vote for Obama over McCain and I have NEVER voted dem but I would work as hard as possible to vote for even Crusty the Clown over the Hillmeister.

  • 2 votes
Reply#6 - Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:48 PM EST
greenpagan

Update:

Teddy K. backs Obama.

The Clintons should be tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail...!!!

(Metaphorically, of course…) (Cough…)

====

  • 3 votes
Reply#7 - Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:45 PM EST
jfxgillis

GP:

If that's the way you feel about your friends, I'd hate to be your enemy. The word "guillotine" springs to mind.

But can you tolerate agreeing with Epiph? The Sticking Points: Chad 'n' Freud on the Primaries

  • 3 votes
#7.1 - Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:10 PM EST
greenpagan

I guess St. Paul didn't take. He can really turn a phrase though...

====

  • 2 votes
#7.2 - Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:38 PM EST
jfxgillis

GP:

I guess St. Paul didn't take. He can really turn a phrase though...

As scary-smart as Bob Avakian!

  • 3 votes
#7.3 - Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:08 PM EST
Reply
epiphany sorbet

The Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Now, the Clintons are doing unto you what they have done to others.

Tough bananas.

  • 2 votes
Reply#8 - Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:28 PM EST
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